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This year, I, along with 2 dancers have begun playing at different events. My number one enemy was nervousness, something I improved by playing every week in coffee shops.
Doing shows was always a goal of mine, even though I did not know if I would be able to. Originally my goals were just to do events like we do now, private parties, festivals, cafes, etc...
Now that I am doing that, it has lost a lot of its, call it glamor, if you will. I find that I don't like these crowds at all. Mainly because they limit me in what I can play. Like I read in other posts, people don't want flamenco (they don't know what it is), so we end up having to rip out all serious stuff and make sure that everything is 'lively and entertaining', which is just half of what I like and a lot of what I am not interested in... playing and signing rumbas.... but that is where the crowd wakes up.
So my thoughts on giving shows have changed, until we can offer dedicated flamenco shows where people pay, all this stuff is just practice and I have to make the best of it, if I ever get there.
My worst show ever happened last night... we played at a home... the toughest crowd ever (and I bet there are worst). But this caught be off guard. There was one or 2 folks whistling and humming (their own unrelated tune) constantly (figured there was senility involved). That distracted my first solo, for a split second, I paused, looked up, wanting to stop and ask them to stop, then realized it was probably uncontrollable. Later, an old man walks out, walks on the stage and has the courtesy of saying 'this is not worth 5 cents'. No big deal, I understand that they would rather hear music they are used to, stuff from the 50s... but that is not why I am there....anyways, it was an experience. Way worst than playing in coffee shops. Note taken, shows at homes, 30 minutes max.
In such cases, simply look at it as "business". You work your 30 minutes, and get paid for it. And sometimes the enviroment of the "job" really sucks. Don't take it too personal. People get drunk and talk **** all the time in such places.
Plus, you should have some nuevo and easy listening stuff and give people what they deserve and what their brain can handle ;)
Don´t get too upset. Even in Andalucía you will have the same problem: last night cante and guitar unamplified and the singer began por soleá, alegrías y tangos: but the people at the bar talked incessently, and only shut up when the singer began to sing por Bambino, canciones de Rocío Jurado y rumbas de Peret.
A real juerga consists only of artistas y aficionados, and it is not so easy to find, even in Spain. So don´t lose heart Be cynical only until you have the right audience
So don´t lose heart Be cynical only until you have the right audience
Exactly...
When I entertain guests from abroad in NY or in Venice –my two home towns [twenty-five years in each], I try to show them the hidden secrets of the cities, what most visitors would never see, and even if they did, would not appreciate. But ultimately, I know they want to see the tour-guide classics, the Empire and Fifth Avenue, Piazza San Marco and Murano, and I would not be a good host if I denied them that. Occasionally, however, a repeat guest will oblige my alternative route and truly appreciate what I can show them.
I suppose the metaphor holds true for any form of entertainment. People attend Paco Pena's concert expecting the purest flamenco, and the few who mistook it for a less known spin on Gypsy Kings will grow bored and disappointed. But, coffee-shop and bar gigs, are non-destination event. And patrons will get annoyed if the television is set on PBS instead of ESPN. My view is that if you want to play those venues, and you should, you must compromise, and work the crowd, indulging the one occasional true soleares, perhaps introduced by a few words, explaining its special place in your heart and art. You can then take the pulse of your audience, and direct your repertory accordingly. This may also educate one or two, and perhaps slowly build a following if you ever have a chance to perform in a recital or concert.
The moral of this story is that you can play for your own enjoyment or play for the audience. Sometimes, but rarely the two can tie the heavenly connubial knot, and that is only when you have your own following, i.e.: people to come because of you playing, not just stumbling upon you in their way.
Don´t get too upset. Even in Andalucía you will have the same problem: last night cante and guitar unamplified and the singer began por soleá, alegrías y tangos: but the people at the bar talked incessently, and only shut up when the singer began to sing por Bambino, canciones de Rocío Jurado y rumbas de Peret.
A real juerga consists only of artistas y aficionados, and it is not so easy to find, even in Spain. So don´t lose heart Be cynical only until you have the right audience
true. In andalucia surprisingly few appreciate flamenco. Thats why there are flamenco peñas. I played couple times a rumba in a restaurant with my friend and it was horrible how the people ignored the music and talked loud as hell. If I ever get to do gigs I will make sure it's has the rule of a peña, no speaking while people are playing and singing. Whats the point to play for people if they are not listening and often the payment for a gig is quite low for flamenco guitarist, unless playing REAL concerts, for example in auditorium
One dedicates a lot of time playing and people don't give a damn how much of time, hours a musician/guitarist invests their time in to become good.
This isn't to sound mean or harsh to you, but, my advice is PLAY for yourself and don't quite your day job! This way you won't have to deal with playing for people who don't want to hear flamenco!
What you experienced not only happens in the flamenco realms it also happens in the "Blues, Rock, Country, etc.
Of course here in AZ, if you wanna make a living playing music and have people interested in what your are playing...Blues, and Country will do just fine
But even in that style of music there is a price and that price is to play the "flavor of the month" songs to a bunch of drunken people who dont' CARE!!!
I'd rather practice, play in my room and make myself happy
I was trying to do some coffee shop gigs here. It started out great but didn't stay that way. I had this idea that I would play the music I love and people would enjoy it because I have impeccable taste in music. But, the people that enjoyed it most were the aficionados (which are few out here). Now I'm re-evaluating what I've been doing and I'm having the same thoughts:
quote:
So my thoughts on giving shows have changed, until we can offer dedicated flamenco shows where people pay, all this stuff is just practice and I have to make the best of it, if I ever get there.
I'd rather practice, play in my room and make myself happy
Kalo
Words of pure wisdom, amigo. Or else, musicians will need to pay their audience... because the rule of thumb should be that 'who is having fun should pay'
I'm not that experienced playing gigs, but when I do I usually play a set that's pretty close to what I like playing at home - bulería, soleá, farruca, alegrías, tangos, and so on. A danza mora because I've heard the crowds like that
Aaaand people probably are bored by it. So why do I do that, and not just a bunch of rumbas? Ehhh, because they're solo shows and I don't sing Is it just me or are most solo rumbas pretty boring, even to a non-aficionado audience? People will get up and dance for Ketama and Gipsy Kings and what have you, but I would think they'd find a solo rumba as unexciting as most of the other stuff I play.
What sort of material have people found their audiences like best when playing solo?
(And be specific with song names - I'm asking this so I can augment my repertoire! Next gig, in a couple of weeks, is my department's garden party...)
if you have a dancer, you're good, people mostly pay attention to the pretty(ish) ladies moving around, even if the music is alien to them...if you have a singer as well, great...if you only have a singer, very much depends on his/her energies...if you have noone else, you're fcked :)
of course much will depends on the venue as well...i've had some restaurant gigs which i really hated, but i learned the lesson not to go there, because i'm no rumbero...it's very-very good practice though, in sound engineering as well as getting used to all kinds of disturbing factors around you...it's made me a better player i think, the experience was great...of course, i prefer a bigger stage and i don't do restaurant gigs without a dancer...
btw in my last performance, the flamenco dancer and a belly dancer were doing the dances, i had a solo piece before the belly dancer, and in the middle of my solo, her song start playing...turkish sounding, with horns and whatnot...it was there for about five seconds, i had to stop playing for a sec, then continued, but i've never ever laughed so hard during a dramatic granaína :D (it didn't bother me because i didn't care so much about this gig fortunately)...had to experience that!
What sort of material have people found their audiences like best when playing solo?
Simple, don't play solo. Why? Well... once again Ricardo has the solution: Get yourself a tiger hat, invite two friends and the audience will go nuts. Women will be throwing bras at you and everything.
Rogeliocan, don't take the audience and those nasty comments so seriously. Even if you were 100 times better at playing guitar or if you only played cheesy rumbas, you would still get that from some people. Look at Grisha for example, one of the best guitar players in the world and he has constantly some f*ckers criticizing him for "lack of duende" and other ridiculous sh*t like that. It's the way of the World, we got to get used to it. Like Kalo was saying, play for yourself and for those who appreciate what your playing.
no, you have to experience this part as well i think, in order to learn and you know it can be really satisfying playing for a better audience in a non-restaurant environment...
For me its pretty simple. I realised that (at least here in Germany), 90% of audience don't appreciate/understand da real thing! I am now praticing with a fella for a future program. We will do only Duos from now on. No one man show. Plus we are looking for a cajon player, maybe a bass player, etc. And we will play pieces like Pharaon from Gypsy Kings, Entre dos aguas, etc. and even add pieces like Classical Gas!
And when i am at home, grab my guitar, put a "don't disturb" sign on my door, lock it, run foroflamenco in the background, and play what i prefer personally. period.
I am now officially 30% fakemenco, 30% cheasy fusion, 30% flamenco, 10% whatever is needed, depending on the situation.
I am even working on a website for both of us with the very cheasy name "persianflamenco".
But one thing i will never do, no matter how much money, fame, girls, drugs, etc. are involved: play f.uckmenco , barefeet.
Here in SA ive found that when people see a quick picado they very interested!!! lol
So thats always an opening for any gig, a nice Solea then some breaking down with picado to get them interested. Now some Buleria etc and just when they start losing interest as things begin to sound too foriegn we move to Gipsy Kings Pharoan or something Gipsy Kings coz EVERYONE knows Gipsy Kings lol
If you want interest in a crowd play GK, they will never fail you lol
The truth is not many understand Flamenco so not many will be interested, Ive accepted this long ago and the only time I play flamenco is amongst friends etc but for any gigs its very difficult
It is nice to read all of your comments, it is pretty clear how gigs are.
Shaun, that is exactly where I am. GJ, very good metaphor and it does apply to everything. This experience and reading all of the comments reminds me that if you want to entertain people, it is about them and not me, not what I like, otherwise I have to be ready to receive negative vibes.
It's funny because I would do a lot better as an entertainer playing my acoustic guitars and playing popular songs that take me literally 10 to 30 minutes to learn as opposed to pieces that take me 1 to 3 months to learn and polish. The thing is I am not doing this to make money, I originally thought I was doing this for pleasure. As Shaun as wrote, I have to re-evaluate what that pleasure is exactly. I will have to redefine it, otherwise I will be done with doing that. But I am still a child when it comes to performing and have a lot to learn so I will continue. And I agree with Hendrix, that all of this is a very good learning experience. I have to accept also that I am not perfect, I still have some stage fright to work with and if I can't give a 95% perfect show, I can't expect a 100% perfect crowd, and as Fred said, that will never happen regardless of my level. Damned humans.
Arash, if I looked like that girl in the video, I bet that old man would have stayed till the end.
And yes, to get people moving... Gipsy Kings!... stuff that makes people tap their feet, clap hands or get up and dance,... and as Flamencosaint said, fast playing, crazy seco also does it, even if it is completely out of compas (and how can you be out of compas if nobody knows what compas is...).
GJ, your description of people is so on the spot with Paco Pena shows. You have the people who know and the ones that don't and expect Jesse Cook style music... I think it's the cante that is the toughest on them.
All the time I spend practicing for gigs, setting and clearing the audio gear, the show itself, is all valuable time that I could use to learn stuff I really care for.... but it is all about the trip and not the destination so let's see if I can find some pleasure in all of this.
But one thing i will never do, no matter how much money, fame, girls, drugs, etc. are involved: play f.uckmenco , barefeet.
You gotta admit the guy has found his niche And to play a solo gig barefoot at his age takes bigger cojones than passing his music off as flamenco. I just loved his Duende del Amour.
There was a period, oh maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I was a fan of his sound and even ordered a guitar from DeVoe with pegs. I had no idea what I was going to do with it and when I got it decided it was too good for me so I gave it to a relative who has talent. Meantime the vapid nature of his compositions far outweighed the sound and I tuned out. I believe he calls it nuevo flamenco.
Don't TRY to insight a riot, that's just being an instigator.
Haha zero tolerance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash
But one thing i will never do, no matter how much money, fame, girls, drugs, etc. are involved: play f.uckmenco , barefeet.
Just found out who the "desvirtuoso" is. Unfortunately, that's exactly what people want to hear. Anyway, I just took a look on his wikipedia page and here's a little quotation taken from the section called "Controversy":
"Yet despite Liebert citing Paco as an influence, Paco himself was moved to describe Liebert's music as "una degeneración, una caricatura del flamenco" (literally, "a degeneration, a caricature")."
Paco said it all...
quote:
ORIGINAL: aeolus
I believe he calls it nuevo flamenco.
In my opinion, the nuevo Flamenco is what guys like Diego del Morao are doing.
EDIT: Nope, I wrote that too fast and without thinking. What Diego and all the other guys from more recent generations are doing is Flamenco. Nuevo Flamenco is just crap.
How come professional Flamenco Guitarist really don't have the same problems with audience per say the way some of us who play occasionally out and have day jobs?
I hope, I am not stirring things up...
But, Jason McGuire seems to have no problem with playing for the RIGHT audience and looks to be quite contented with performing and teaching.
Jason's student Roberto Granados doesn't seem to have any problems as well...He played for the President, and played a conservatory filled full of people who seemed to love what he was playing both classical and flamenco!
What I am trying to express is that they don't just throw in the towel or re think whether they want to do this professionally..It's almost like KARMA follows them....
We might have to asks ourselves, and AGAIN, I mean no disrespect to anyone, but, is it that they are just better then we are and get BETTER gigs, i.e. an audience who appreciates the music/culture?
I do this for a hobby, but, for some of us who have day jobs and do this as a side seem to have more problems finding the right audience! Especially those of us who didn't start young!
I played ROCK guitar for 8 years before I decieded to put down the pick and play flamenco guitar.
Sure they are better and get better gigs, no question about that, but one advantage is also the location. There is a vivid flamenco scene there where those guys live, whereas in some places (like where i live or maybe you and others live), its not that good.
Sure they are better and get better gigs, no question about that, but one advantage is also the location. There is a vivid flamenco scene there where those guys live, whereas in some places (like where i live or maybe you and others live), its not that good.
I agree with you Arash!
Here in good ol Phoenix, AZ we have a small flamenco scene, but, still, NOT great!!!
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Be cynical only until you have the right audience 
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