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On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling Stones in Oakland tomorrow, anyone?
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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 On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling Ston...
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I am taking my girls to a Rolling Stones' concert in Oakland, tomorrow... anyone else attending the old yet still rocking band's event?
It's been one of my absolute favorite bands, growing up, but never managed to see them in concert.
Once, a few years ago, I hailed a cab by Carnegie Hall, in NY. I held the door open as a gentleman paid the fare, and when he stood up in front of me, face to face... he was a person no less than Mick Jagger. I first gulped in an absolute star-struck awe, and then seized by a childish desire to connect with him I could only spastically repeat 'Mr. Jagger, Mr. Jagger, Mr. Jagger.' And caused him to rush across the street in visible fear.
Well, I scared one of the idols of my youth that day. Tomorrow I ll be screaming his name among thousands, and hopefully will just cheer him up.
Cheers, Mr. Jagger 
_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date May 4 2013 19:19:44
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Congratulations on your enjoyment of the Stones, and to them for their longevity.
For me they used to call forth a different feeling. I was at the free concert at Altamont, winter of 1969. They said there were as many as 300,000 people there. Things turned sour, and the altmosphere grew more and more violent as the day wore on and the various bands performed, due to two elements, from my perspective. The crowd was high on acid, meth and who knows what else. Drugs were being sold cheaply in large quantities and were freely given away by others. Lots of scuffles and out and out fights broke out.
The other element was employing the San Francisco Hell's Angels as stage security.
I was familiar with a biker gang that was as bad as, some say worse than, the Angels: San Antonio's Bandidos. My cousin Tom L. built engines for them, though he was not himself an outlaw. Through him I knew some of the Bandidos, and some details of their activities and attitudes. When my friends and I got to Altamont and saw the Angels' bikes parked in a row and the Angels themselves wearing their colors, premonitions were in the air for me.
Things got worse and worse as the day wore on. We were down front, near the stage. Several times people in the crowd tried to climb onto the fairly low stage. We saw the Angels wade into the crowd more than once, cracking heads with their sawed off pool cues, pushing back the crowd to protect the performers. Almost inevitably in my experience, violence provoked blowback, as the crowd grew angrier and angrier at the Angels.
We didn't see the Angels kill the guy who flashed a pistol. The film footage showing it was from higher viewpoints. But the word spread rapidly through the crowd that the Angels had finally killed somebody. Few people seemed to know that it was in response to a severe threat to the safety of the Stones.
I was not surprised that the Angels had killed somebody, but I still remember the crushing sense of dread and disappointment. The crowd had degenerated into a violent mob. A lot of people began to leave.We joined them.
Traffic was very heavy on the narrow access roads, and progress was very slow inching along on a big bike with my girl on the back. It was just beginning to be light by the time we made it back to Berkeley.
For me it was a somewhat belated end to my youth. Clouds of darkness and despair closed over the entire "counterculture" community of the Bay Area.
I was no stranger to violence, having participated in paramilitary "counter-insurgency" operations in Central America several years previously. In the end it revolted me, and I quit in disgust. I found some hope in parts of the anti-war movement back in the U.S.A.
What discouraged me was not the violence at Altamont. It was the loss of hope by the "counterculture" that followed closely upon it. Altamont was not the only event that precipitated this across the country, but it was a key event for the Bay Area.
After a period of some years, it finally became clear to me that although we are strongly influenced by events that surround us, and that we participate in, it is up to us individually to choose our path and to take responsibility for our own attitudes toward life.
For me, the clouds parted to a considerable degree. The world is no better now than it was on that cold gray morning in December, 1969, as we made our way back home, shocked and saddened. In some ways the world is worse. But as old age takes over, I am more or less at peace, not with the way of the world, but with my own reactions to it. I don't condone the crass materialism, the self-serving of our politics, the know-nothing hatred and violence, the destruction of the environment.
Forty-three years later I can still remember the crushing sense of tragedy that settled in after Altamont. But as I used to tell my employees, you must be healthy to fulfill your obligations to family and co-workers, you must have a positive and energetic attitude to make a contribution. For many years I have been able to follow my own advice much of the time.
So the Stones can now make me smile again, and make me want to get up and dance.
RNJ
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Date May 6 2013 21:27:35
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Of your tellings I liked this one the most.
Very moving. 
That desillusional historical moment when promissing departure turned into a U-turn towards even worse superficiality than before, was the most tragic societal occurance in my life´s perception too. ( Eventhough I was still a kid and consciously realized the happenings only with delay.)
The chances were real, and the winning of the ordinary and berserk unspeakable pity.
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And no need for me to tell the story of the Stones banging a full bottle of wine onto the head of their vans driver in Hanover.
Yet, when lent power without personal consequences will we show our either truly civilized or actually brute being. Sorry for sympathetic Keith, but if he had objected I suppose the news of it would have come round too.
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Around same time as your story, the German copy of Hells Angels stuffed with baseball clubs allegedly attented an open air concert where a group of Persians were enagaged for security. The hells allegedly 200 heads, the security guys 50.
The first were beaten up badly by the latter, so told me the stage light guy.
What´s the bull anyway with immitating frustrated Vietnam veterans in North Germany. Kinda like non-American youngsters mimic ghetto rap of US metropolitan kids. WTF 
Authencity like of wrestling.
Anyway, ...
-
I really digged your story and the thoughts, Richard.
Ruphus
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Date May 6 2013 22:44:37
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to keith)
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They were playing "Sympathy for the Devil" when Mick stopped in the middle of the song and pled with the crowd just to be cool.
It was hard to see exactly what was going on, even as close to the stage as we were. The stage was low, the crowd was dense. But more than once we could see people try to climb up on the stage, only to be shoved off by the Angels.
It looked to me like the Angels could have been overcome by the crowd. They must have thought so, too. Several times we saw them wade into the crowd swinging sawed off pool cues, breaking heads as they tried to push the crowd back. Each time there were a lot of bloodied heads, and a lot of more and more pissed off people.
According to accounts, the guy tried to get up on the stage once, and was pushed off. Then he came back, waving a pistol. Before he got to the stage one of the Angels stabbed him. In the movie "Give Me Shelter" you can see him stabbed twice. Some say he was stabbed five times.
We didn't know exactly when the stabbing went down. We couldn't see what was going on right in front of the stage. I don't remember what the band was playing in the movie, when the footage taken from higher up showed the guy getting killed.
Once the crowd began to take on a sinister vibe, I was not surprised that the Angels eventually reacted with violence. I was familiar with the biker ethos. They were calm and easygoing, sitting on the edge of the stage drinking beer until they began to feel threatened by the crowd's persistent attempts to overcome them. Then they reacted with rapidly escalating violence: typical biker behavior. But they had no experience facing a mob that outnumbered them more than a thousand to one. Instead of putting a stop to it, their behavior just made things worse.
What brought me down so hard was not seeing the Angels react in a perfectly predictable way. It was really seriously stupid using them for stage security. But once things started to go bad, what went down was perfectly predictable. What saddened and discouraged me so was seeing a couple hundred thousand tie-died Bay Area peaceniks gradually morph into an acid- and meth-fueled violent mob. My faith in mankind was already at a pretty low ebb. It sank a lot further a lot faster that day.
During a subsequent career that brought me closer and closer to the inner circle of the Cold War, I learned that checking the human capacity for destructive violence required considerable coolness and calculation. With a few exceptions these qualities were practiced with remarkable restraint by both of the super powers in their direct relations with one another.
I was part of the thermonuclear standoff. The power to destroy the world made the U.S. and the Soviets both extremely careful in this area. No one was injured by a nuclear weapon during the cold war. The people who suffered were the military proxies and the imperial subjects of both sides, and the U.S. soldiers in Vietnam and the Russians in Afghanistan.
RNJ
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Date May 6 2013 23:13:16
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3459
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
What discouraged me was not the violence at Altamont. It was the loss of hope by the "counterculture" that followed closely upon it. Altamont was not the only event that precipitated this across the country, but it was a key event for the Bay Area.
During the early to mid 1960s I was in the U.S. Air Force, in an intelligence command that has gone through several iterations and is today called the Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance Agency. I spent most of my time in Germany and Pakistan. In Pakistan we operated out of the same unit in Peshawar from which Francis Gary Powers took off on his ill-fated mission over the Soviet Union. During that time, and after I left the Air Force in 1967 to attend graduate school and later enter the U.S. Foreign Service, I was (and remain to this day) a big fan of the Rolling Stones and other groups of that era. My favorites of that era were (and are) the Stones' "I Can't Get No Satisfaction," The Byrds" (written by Dylan) "Hey Mr. Tambourine Man," the Mamas and the Papas "California Dreamin'," and Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sounds of Silence."
As much as I liked the music of that era, however, I could see the hypocrisy inherent in much of the counter-culture's thought and action long before Altamont in 1969. There was certainly some good that came out of the counter-culture in the 1960s. America was too uptight and needed to loosen up. Nevertheless, Much of the counter-culture was, in its own way, just as conformist as the culture against which it railed. Altamont simply demonstrated how much the counter-culture conformed in its lack of discipline, self-control, and individual responsibility. But the problem of lack of discipline, self control, and individual responsibility was evident to any discerning observer long before Altamont, as was the counter-culture's fraudulent sense of moral superiority. I had no faith in such lemmings who seemed to fulfill Nietzche's prescient aphorism: "Look, look, he runs away from men. They follow him however, because he runs before them. They are a gregarious lot."
The music of that era, however, remains great.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date May 7 2013 1:38:52
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3459
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
Do you use a heated bending machine for lifes laminates, or does it work the cold-blooded soaking way?
How do you get all the empirics and insulated factuals with the intelligence on top grinded into such cognitive nut shell?
I would really like to know how that works.
Speaking of heat, Ruphus, your overheated rhetoric generates far more heat than light. You would be far better off engaging in civil debate with those with whom you disagree, whether the subject be comments on the 1960s counter-culture, the definition of art, political philosophy, economics, or any of the other topics that seem to bring forth cataclysmic tremors from you when you disagree. Civil debate is far preferable to throwing around epithets and questioning the motives of your interlocutors, such as whether an opinion is reached "the cold-blooded soaking way." Such comments reveal far more about you than about those to whom they are directed.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 7 2013 16:03:54
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guitarbuddha
Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
Do you use a heated bending machine for lifes laminates, or does it work the cold-blooded soaking way?
How do you get all the empirics and insulated factuals with the intelligence on top grinded into such cognitive nut shell?
I would really like to know how that works.
Speaking of heat, Ruphus, your overheated rhetoric generates far more heat than light. You would be far better off engaging in civil debate with those with whom you disagree, whether the subject be comments on the 1960s counter-culture, the definition of art, political philosophy, economics, or any of the other topics that seem to bring forth cataclysmic tremors from you when you disagree. Civil debate is far preferable to throwing around epithets and questioning the motives of your interlocutors, such as whether an opinion is reached "the cold-blooded soaking way." Such comments reveal far more about you than about those to whom they are directed.
Cheers,
Bill
The Rage of Caliban
Come on Bill, this tack again ?
We can all be flawed and abbrasive at times, no ?
D.
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Date May 7 2013 16:11:53
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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One truly transgressive act, in the Stones' spirit, was Keith Richard's [at times joined by his fellow guitarist, Ron Wood] contemptuously smoking cigarettes on stage ... this is a Stage in the State of California where smoking is considered 'dangerous'.
As a smoker [a vile habit, i know] I felt a sense of keen solidarity and proud camaraderie with Keith, wh will be turning 70 this December.
This band's vicissitudes encompass five decades of music, politics, moral and social changes. if you think of it, each of these five decades was a century-long, each marked by events and distinctive trends that define each. The 'Stones' have adapted while remaining true to their music core values. These are musicians, after all, and as much as we may try to associate them with anything else... it's only rack & roll.... but.... 
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_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date May 7 2013 16:34:52
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: On A Much Lighter Note, Rolling ... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
One truly transgressive act, in the Stones' spirit, was Keith Richard's [at times joined by his fellow guitarist, Ron Wood] contemptuously smoking cigarettes on stage ... this is a Stage in the State of California where smoking is considered 'dangerous'.
As a smoker [a vile habit, i know] I felt a sense of keen solidarity and proud camaraderie with Keith, wh will be turning 70 this December.
This band's vicissitudes encompass five decades of music, politics, moral and social changes. if you think of it, each of these five decades was a century-long, each marked by events and distinctive trends that define each. The 'Stones' have adapted while remaining true to their music core values. These are musicians, after all, and as much as we may try to associate them with anything else... it's only rack & roll.... but....
This smoker hunt of past decades that peaked into hysterical scream like of a bunch of 5 year olds, showcases the exact hypocrisis like with Nancy´s "Just say no" nonesense while her husband was hauling tons of coke bags for the Iran-Contra deal.
How can a civilized society not remark that there should be separate chambers for smokers and none-smokers, so that simply noone be bothered. Period.
You don´t like a smoky bar? Go to a none-smoker one. But why would you want to have the others without a place?
That stupid smoke thingy has been one of the most obvious indicators of still in place moralism / Middle Ages rudiments of backwardedness, bondage and nonage of the public.
Funny though how noone went after the industrries 500 substances that make tobbacco as hazardous as it is today.
Not enough simplicistic moralistic value in that, apparently.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
This band's vicissitudes encompass five decades of music, politics, moral and social changes. if you think of it, each of these five decades was a century-long, each marked by events and distinctive trends that define each. The 'Stones' have adapted while remaining true to their music core values. These are musicians, after all, and as much as we may try to associate them with anything else... it's only rack & roll.... but....
Well remarked!
Ruphus
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Date May 7 2013 17:01:43
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