Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Besides playing flamenco I am an industrial engineer student, and as part of a "Project Management" course I'm developing a working plan for building a flamenco guitar ;)
I need some numbers, they don't have to be precise, and they are only for a small academic project.
Any help will be appreciated :)
1. What is the cost of the folowings: a. Spruce wood for the top b. Rosewood wood for the back, sides and bridge c. cedarwood for the neck d. Shellac
2. I'v written down most of the steps in building the guitar , but I have no clue how much time each step takes. Can you please write estimate time each can take ?
Rosetta: 1. Rosetta drawing on the page 2. gluing the chosen sticks 3. Drying under pressure 4. Cutting into small mosaic
Top: 1. Cut two halfs of blocks (under block I mean the uncurved wood) 2. drawing Top's shape on the blocks 3. Gluing two halves 4. Drying 5. Top shape cutting 6. Scraping a circle for the Rossetti 7. Rosetta Mosaic paste (made only after cutting the Rosetta sticks ) 8. scraping the Top + Test proper thickness 9. sanding 10. Mapping Points for the braces 11. Sawing bracing parts 12. gluing the braces 13. installing the top into the press (putting the flexible bars) 14. Drying under pressure 15. Cutting a hole in the resonant 16. Carving the braces
Back: 1. Cut two halfs of blocks 2. Drawing Back's shape 3. Pasting two halves 4. Drying 5. Cutting Back's shape 6. scraping of the back + Test proper thickness 7. gluing the braces 8. Drying under pressure 9. Carving the braces
Neck: 1. Cutting the neck block, head block, spanish foot block 2. gluing the head to the neck+ gluing the top wood to the head 3. Drying 4. Drawing the head stock shape 5. Sawing head shape +tuning keys and holes 6. Paste the spanish foot block 7. Drawing the foot shape on the block 8. Carving spanish foot
sides: 1. Cutting two blocks to the sides 2. scraping the two sides+ Test proper thickness 3. Heating bending rod 4. bending both sides 5. Fixation and drying of wood
bindings: 1. Cutting Sticks for binding+gluing 2. bending 3. Drying
assembly: (done only after neck and Top polls) 1. Paste the neck to the Top (on the Solera for sure the angle is correct) 2. Drying under pressure 3. gluing the sides (with the aid of the small wood pieces) 4. Drying under pressure 5. gluing the back 6. Drying under pressure 7. Carving channels for the bindings 8. Paste the bindings (after they are ready) 9. Drying under pressure 10. Filing and sanding 11. french polish+drying (all the coats) 12. Bridge Block Cutting 13. Carving bridge + Nut + saddle 14. Paste bridge 15. Drying under pressure 16. Installing tuning Keys 17. Tying strings
rule 1 of project management regarding time: ask for both effort and duration times. rule 2, because you want to make sure you have as many luthiers spend time on this as you can. Get many estimates to do 3-point estimates then use Monte Carlo to get your probabilities of meeting your timeline.
Finally, since you don't know how to build guitars, I would weigh the worst-case estimate to consider that variable and consider high risk of rework and starting over, and also double the cost of you material in case you make cutting mistakes.
Finally, after looking at the total cost and risk of the poor quality of the guitar, I would review the business case and buy one directly from a luthier ;)
Do you mean man-hours of effort plus elapsed time that does not involve effort e.g. glueing and then waiting for glue to dry before proceeding?
Yes, exactly that.
By the way, I was joking about most of the stuff I wrote, although it would be true for a high risk and high cost project. But for the time, you need to get both.
Although I suspect all the luthiers read this and avoiding answering because that in itself is a chore and time consuming effort, and also the answers will vary for each, and of course some fight might start like "why do YOU spend so much time carving the bla bla, only takes me an hour...." etc etc....but I think it would be VERY interesting to hear from at least one luthier on this. I patiently wait.
Since the project is academic and putting numbers on it would probably not create a fight, but for some reason none of the guitar makers want to broach the subject so far. ..hmm.
One major thing missing from this work path is the idea of building a series supporting jigs, studio-shop furnishings like benches and smaller tools and specialzed appliances that are usualy hand made by the luthier. Those tools can take alot of time to build. Building a solera can take time and it needs to be done carefully.
And inevitably a fight could crop up over the use or non use of the dreaded radius dish. The radius dish, also known as The Orc's Discus or the Frisbee of Satan. Any fights woud be more about which widgets each person uses and the name calling that would ensue when there were clashes over tools and jig use!
If you wanted the project be realistic you would have to factor in more than the building of the guitar and the main thing I would say beyond the actual assembly time would be shop and fixture set up.
It is also difficult to place time values on many of the tasks the way they are parsed out on this chart. The listings don't really sail through what I would personally use as the critical path to build a guitar. Or for that matter the way I would descibe or do each task. And many of the tasks listed are not tasks I would do using the style of building I do.
For example I don't use individual sticks to make rosette tiles so the whole conceptualization of the types of sub assemblies and order they are done in is incorrect for me and the entire proceedural time line would have to totally rewritten for me to fit my method into that format. I would think most other guitrmakers systems and building rhythms are too personal and varied to be able to fit them into this format.
So the first thing I would do if I were an industial designer or engnieer is I would set aside time to research and consult guitarmakers on the way they prioritize sub assemblies in relation to the over all assembly. Then establish a format that could be used by several guitar makers to give input. The format would give each sub assembly section more choices for methodological variation.
A sample might be to break it down into into the actual ways guitar makers think about the critical path. Let the guitar maker establish the order of assembly of all the major constiutent parts. Some guitarmakers build the neck first and others begin with the top...for example. A better list of major sub assemblies might go like this:
Neck
Top
Sides
Back
So for example the rosette would not be aseparate task, but come under the heading of 'Top'
Neck would include subassemblies like headstock veneer. ------------
~Then within in each sub assembly a list of specific tasks pertinent to a particular makers style which you would learn by asking them more about the style they build.
~Then the path goes to the first assembly of the super structure, getting the guitar in guitar form as a whole.
~Next the post assembly sub routines like: fingerboard, binding, fretting, set up, finishing. Each of those tasks has a sub list of tasks if you wanted to go that far. _________________________________________________________________
So the list as it is seems difficult to me to comment on because it does not fit the way guitarmakers basically think or refer to processes.
Yo fullmetal Why don't you go to your browser and put in "guitar building". A whole bunch of videos pop up showing all types of guitar building videos. Some real great ones there. Even a guy showing how to make a rosette from scratch. How many sticks he glues together etc. Ramon
Printable Version
Any fights woud be more about which widgets each person uses and the name calling that would ensue when there were clashes over tools and jig use! 
bla bla bla....no timings??? 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread