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Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU?   You are logged in as Guest
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Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

Lightweight machine heads, black tun... 
Just put a set of Gotoh machine heads on one of my guitars, very nice except they have made the guitar too heavy at the headstock.

Any suggestions for a supplier of lightweight machine heads with black tuning keys?

(most suppliers don't list the weight, which is annoying)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 11:00:41
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
You can buy replacement black "pegs" for some brands

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 12:37:33
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
there have been a few threads with weights of machine tuners.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 13:23:45
 
orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to keith) 
quote:

(most suppliers don't list the weight..


I weighed some of mine and listed here-

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=164501&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=gotoh%2Cweight&tmode=&smode=&s=#166019
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 14:29:42
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I was thinking about buying a set myself, especially since i broke my lower E tuner earlier this week. Might be interested to take over your's if you want to get writ of them. Which type of Gotoh did you buy and were did you buy them?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 15:14:08
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
Thanks guys. Here are my Gotoh tuners, don't know which model they are. I'll have to weigh them next time I change strings to see how they compare to the models mentioned by Orsonw.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2013 9:43:22
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it....compared to the "light/cheap (and now broken) crap" i have on my conde it's quality is probably worth it's weight in gold. I'm glad the plastic hand grip of my tuner broke of because that one was a pain in the ass for years and i was simply to lazy to do something about it...now i have to.

That brings me back to the question.... were did you buy the Gotoh tuners?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2013 14:34:38
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it....compared to the "light/cheap (and now broken) crap" i have on my conde it's quality is probably worth it's weight in gold. I'm glad the plastic hand grip of my tuner broke of because that one was a pain in the ass for years and i was simply to lazy to do something about it...now i have to.



do all good guitars have very basic normal tuners? I can't remember what was on my Anders Eliasson guitar, but on the my David Macias guitar, which cost 6k new, it has the basic gotoh tuners which cost maybe 80-100 bucks. Why don't makers put more quality tuners? 200 bucks tuners should be better yeah?

well, if there's a place which sells better tuners, I'll like to change mine too =)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2013 21:58:55
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to HolyEvil) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

do all good guitars have very basic normal tuners?


I obtained my 1985 palisander Conde 2th hand so i don't know for sure if it had the original tuners. Since they were crap i had them replaced around 1993. A student of mine told me he could get me a much better pair for affordable praises and since i knew nothing about the subject i gladly agreed. Given the fact he charged me less than 50,- i guess they did fall in the cheap department.

My 1973 ibanez on the other hand still has it's original tuners...the early 70 models offered incredible guitars for there price (250,-) with perfect necks and action :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2013 22:15:49
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
quote:


That brings me back to the question.... were did you buy the Gotoh tuners?


From my local guitar shop, they do all my repairs etc for me and keep a stock of Gotohs:

http://www.mansons.co.uk/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2013 8:09:40
 
pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
I am told that these folks make really good machine heads and they sell direct too. I am considering buying some for a cashimira I have which needs a new set. This is the link......hope its of use to you.........

http://rubner-markneukirchen.de/onlineshop/index.php?cat=c4_guitar-mechanics.html&XTCsid=d6a2fb73cf03b72fd650c2826c66a683

Hope the link works OK...not so good with computers!! Best regards
pink
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2013 22:09:33
 
kominak

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to pink) 
Rubners do look nice, but the mechanical quality is worse than Gotoh. If you can live with the looks these are as light as it gets and work very well, too:

http://www.madinter.com/index.php/for-classical-guitar/tuning-machines-pegs/tuning-machines-gotoh/gotoh-35ar-510s-en-n-b-ebony-knobs.html

I think I saw Anders using them on some of his guitars.

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Martin Kominak
Slovakia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2013 13:01:30
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
thanks everyone, always nice to know the options.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2013 15:34:41
 
johnguitar

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
If your choice of a peg head or a machine head guitar is based solely on weight considerations you can look here at some numbers. http://www.granadaexpert.com/johnray/weight-and-balance-in-flamenco-guitars/ I weighed a neck with peg holes and then the same neck with slots just to see the difference. You can save somewhere in the neighbourhood of 100 grams with wooden pegs, more if you use a lightweight wood for the pegs and a traditional thin headstock. This weight out on the end of the neck can really make a difference to the feel of the guitar.



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John Ray
https://www.johnguitar.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2014 14:39:44
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to johnguitar) 
100g is quite a lot and more than I would have guessed. But what difference does it make to the sound of the guitar?

The received wisdom is that more weight in the neck and headstock means more sustain. But I'm not convinced about this.
And the other question is, 'Does the weight saving outweigh the obvious advantage of machine tuners? Well in my experience I don't get asked to convert machines to pegs but I do get asked to convert pegs to machines.
Now there must be a reason for that eh?

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2014 18:08:23
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to HolyEvil) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil
200 bucks tuners should be better yeah?


Should be is the key question. Proper fitting of the tuners is vastly more important than the brand. I had one customer wear out a set of $60 Gotoh's. He's a professional studio musician who plays probably 6-8 or more hours a day. The first set of tuners only lasted 25 years.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2014 18:27:33
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Proper fitting of the tuners is vastly more important than the brand.


Agreed; badly drilled holes and machines under tension can completely ruin the tuning / leaving even good tuners performing coarse.

But how important a make is can only be evalued after having employed the best functioning first.

Have you experienced tuners from Klaus Scheller yet?
-

Tuners to me appear to be the most underrated item in the nylon guitar world.

Look how quality tuners in the steel-stringed section work. Check out what seamlessness, smoothness and precision can feel like.

Then return to your typical nylon axe to see how it appears like turning spoons in a honey pot.

Next order Meister Scheller´s expensive but one of a kind stuff, tell him of the degree of torque you have in mind, and see your nylon strings tweaked like in the steel department.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2014 22:01:39
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

But how important a make is can only be evalued after having employed the best functioning first.

Have you experienced tuners from Klaus Scheller yet?


In all my almost 50 years of building I've never had a professional musician complain about tuners. I'd rather spend my limited funds on high quality wood and leave the expensive bling to those who like shiney things.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2014 22:53:08
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

In all my almost 50 years of building I've never had a professional musician complain about tuners. I'd rather spend my limited funds on high quality wood and leave the expensive bling to those who like shiney things.


I could certainly agree with that John. I use Rubners or Gotoh and I've never had a problem reported with either brand.

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2014 6:19:01
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Lightweight machine heads, black... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
You may agree however that judging something you have not experienced yet is not really meaningful, no matter how you shift around given imprirics.

Did I sound like praising "bling"?

I am willing to bet that the professionals you point to would appreciate gear that allows extremely precise control with tuning. The pleasure of seamlessly dialing in to any increment desired.

For some reason I even claim that professionals should appreciate such a feature more than amateurs. By use of logic at least.
-

Besides:
I used to belong to those too who tattle about boutique machines. And I still do in regard of some famous makes that outperform common gear only by little / correspondingly are way too luxuriously priced.

But if you appreciate precision tuninng and what it makes of your well intonating guitar, you admire the engineering of Scheller.

I think we have had some posts on finer gear on the foro, with others confirming how Scheller´s make a difference to bling.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2014 9:21:23
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