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XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Im not familiar with that literature you mentioned, but i see governmental acts in foreign states to be in concordance with the interests of national companies. Not all, but in 9 out of 10 cases you could say the state is the agent who is executing and ensuring the interests of his national companies.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 22:09:30
 
brandoscostumes

 

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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

it's seriously creepy how leftists will defend/legitimize any tyrant who claims to be a champion of the poor..they ensure the rise of the next mini-caudillo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 22:32:59
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to brandoscostumes

good thing to know you keep the quality of your posts "consistent"

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 22:41:15
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Guest

quote:

I find it strange that not so many "latinos" participate in this foro.


Not really as it is an English speaking foro ...not all spanish o latinos hablan Inglés

¿por qué no ir a

http://guitarra.artepulsado.com/foros/index.php?s=f86618e9366a5848023d8355a9a8fc71

por ejemplo, y cuando estás allí te puede escribir
''Me parece extraño que no hay gente que hablan Inglés que participan en este foro''

o algo así ..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 22:43:22
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

Was he a great man? Was he a wise man? No, he was about as good as Col. Kurtz. A false Robinhood. A Robinhood for fools.

This is real brilliance! Sing along!




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 22:55:20
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

Don't be late delivery boy!


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:02:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

First the pizza is late then the crap really hits the fan:



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:04:02
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

what I LOVE ABOUT CHAVEZ IS THIS SUPER FUNNY VIDEO


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:10:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

Then this team really messed up.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:11:31
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to kudo

quote:

what I LOVE ABOUT CHAVEZ IS THIS SUPER FUNNY VIDEO


jeez he really let him have it never seen that before

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:25:37
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Florian

quote:



what I LOVE ABOUT CHAVEZ IS THIS SUPER FUNNY VIDEO



jeez he really let him have it never seen that before

AND THIS ONE

HAHAHAHA I LOVE HIM !!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2013 23:31:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

The problem with Fox News is that they are so dumb they don't know when they have been put down. Any one with half a brain cell can slip Fox News a whammy. It's not really much of an accomplishment.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 0:15:26
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

quote:

Any one with half a brain cell can slip Fox News a whammy. It's not really much of an accomplishment.


John Stewart made a carrer of it

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 0:34:16
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Leñador

quote:

John Stewart made a carrer of it


Which means he should actually run for president of Venezuela?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 1:32:46
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

quote:

Which means he should actually run for president of Venezuela?

If I was on mushrooms you would've totally blown my mind!!

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 1:35:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14927
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Leñador

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

I lived with some Nicaraguans for around 5 years. They fled during the Sandanista revolution, from what they say, because of their alliance with previous regime their land was taken, they were threatened and that more or less they were forced out. According to them, Ortega was the most evil man on the planet who stole all their wealth and forced them out of their homes and land. While I was living with them I made friends with another Nicaraguan guy who's family more or less came in to power during the revolution and had nothing but great things to say about Ortega, that his family had nothing until Ortega and how much he did for Nicaragua. The family I lived with would not even let my friend come over the hatred was so great. I listened to both sides for hours(usually not willingly) and I still have no opinion one way or the other.

Basically what I noticed is just how polarized a place can be. We think we're polarized here in the U.S. but it's nothing compared to places like this. I'm willing to bet Venezuela is not very different. I've seen Venezuelans say Chavez was their savior and I've seen others call him a dangerous dictator. Either way, in those situations I don't find it my place to even have an opinion as I did not live through it personally....


bro, that type of logical well reasoned and thought out post of actual experience has NO BUSINESS in this type of topic! This if only for people that want their singular view point to be heard and WELL understood.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 5:32:34
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

bro, that type of logical well reasoned and thought out post of actual experience has NO BUSINESS in this type of topic! This if only for people that want their singular view point to be heard and WELL understood.


Orange guitars for you! Period!
~

On another note, I worked for a summer in a gas station in Big Sur with a burned out drinker who had just spent five years in Central America as a staff photographer for the Washington Post.

He showed me binders full, ha ha, binders full of women he photographed who were not enjoying the war. The Post would not publish, any of them. One I remember distinctly was of two teenage Indian girls who he said were thirteen or fourteen standing in a dugout canoe wearing camoflage uniforms and bearing M-16's. He said they went out on patrols like that every night.

I always wonder what happened to them. I don't care too much about famous loud mouthed politicians after I saw his photographs. Not all the subjects were alive. The best thing that ever happened to Hugo Chavez was when the King of Spain told him to shut his big mouth. Otherwise, whether for good or bad, that guy never let anyone one else speak. Having been on the receiving end of countless drunken speeches from older male relations as a child I could never relate to Chavez' grandiose and overbearing oratory. He was not much more than a garden variety blowhard, and he really was not that smart.

When a loved one dies whether they are a vicious dictator or a loud mouth lout with some power, my heart goes out the children and wife, mother of the said blowhard. To them he was loved and he loved them back. They mourn and they are what should be meditated upon by the world.

Whether Chavez went to heaven or hell either God or the Devil is telling him to shut up and give them a moment of peace from his infinite blabbing. God and the Devil will probably bounce Chavez back and forth between them for eternity like two divorced parents shuttle a child back and forth bi weekly according to a custody settlement.

Eventually, after several kalpas elapse, Hugo himself might be able to sit quietly without opening his mouth. Then he will be at peace.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 5:36:15
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

I lived with some Nicaraguans for around 5 years. They fled during the Sandanista revolution, from what they say, because of their alliance with previous regime their land was taken, they were threatened and that more or less they were forced out. According to them, Ortega was the most evil man on the planet who stole all their wealth and forced them out of their homes and land. While I was living with them I made friends with another Nicaraguan guy who's family more or less came in to power during the revolution and had nothing but great things to say about Ortega, that his family had nothing until Ortega and how much he did for Nicaragua. The family I lived with would not even let my friend come over the hatred was so great. I listened to both sides for hours(usually not willingly) and I still have no opinion one way or the other.

Basically what I noticed is just how polarized a place can be. We think we're polarized here in the U.S. but it's nothing compared to places like this. I'm willing to bet Venezuela is not very different. I've seen Venezuelans say Chavez was their savior and I've seen others call him a dangerous dictator. Either way, in those situations I don't find it my place to even have an opinion as I did not live through it personally....


bro, that type of logical well reasoned and thought out post of actual experience has NO BUSINESS in this type of topic! This if only for people that want their singular view point to be heard and WELL understood.


Yeah, uhm, no. Because you have to have lived in the nazi regime to have an opinion on it, right? RIGHT?

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 10:32:02
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to estebanana

quote:

The best thing that ever happened to Hugo Chavez was when the King of Spain told him to shut his big mouth.


thanks for reminding us, Stephen. That was a classic moment that occurred at the 2007 Ibero-Latin American Summit in Santiago, Chile. Chavez kept interrupting, and even called a former Spanish Prime Minister a "Fascist." Chavez is so thick-headed and such a boor, however, that I doubt it even registered with him how badly he had just been put down by King Juan Carlos in front of the entire leadership of Spain and Latin America.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 11:36:01
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2202
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

That was a classic moment that occurred at the 2007 Ibero-Latin American Summit in Santiago, Chile. Chavez kept interrupting, and even called a former Spanish Prime Minister a "Fascist."


Well, no doubt Chavez lacked social graces, but he was right. The former PM is a fascist and he and his friends from Opus Dei and Manos Limpios are pulling the strings in the Spanish government, which, in one year, has dismantled the social welfare state, cut health and education, is eliminating the middle class, empoverishing the poor and enriching the rich, in the midst of multiple corruption scandals.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 11:56:02
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Morante

quote:

the Spanish government, which, in one year, has dismantled the social welfare state, cut health and education, is eliminating the middle class, empoverishing the poor and enriching the rich, in the midst of multiple corruption scandals.


...while under Chavez's policies of nationalization, expropriation, and control of the media and levers of power, Venezuela has experienced a huge outflow of money going to Miami banks, no foreign direct investment to create more jobs (who wants to have investments expropriated?), rampant inflation, shortages of everything from basic foodstuffs to consumer goods, and, ironically, a hollowing out of the middle class.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 12:44:36
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

quote:

Yeah, uhm, no. Because you have to have lived in the nazi regime to have an opinion on it, right? RIGHT?


That's A LOT more black & white. Even the family that hated Ortega didn't mention racial genocide, if so it would've made having an opinion much easier.

quote:

bro, that type of logical well reasoned and thought out post of actual experience has NO BUSINESS in this type of topic! This if only for people that want their singular view point to be heard and WELL understood.

Haha, next time I'll keep my controversial opinion to myself and go kick rocks

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 13:07:48
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

I love when a thread goes from zero to Hitler in one page.

He would have been unpopular at Hogwarts. Definitely Slitherin House.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 16:05:38
 
Morante

 

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Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

...while under Chavez's policies of nationalization, expropriation, and control of the media and levers of power, Venezuela has experienced a huge outflow of money going to Miami banks, no foreign direct investment to create more jobs (who wants to have investments expropriated?), rampant inflation, shortages of everything from basic foodstuffs to consumer goods, and, ironically, a hollowing out of the middle class.


Well, I was not talking about Chavez, about whom i know nothing, I was talking about Spanish fascism.

But I remember well, when I was writing my thesis on the effect of information technology on the Third world, I discovered that the American multinationals and the American government were the most sinverguenza del mundo, overthrowing foreign governments, starting wars, putting pressure on Brazil to stifle its growning microcomputer industry etc, etc: the list of self interested vergonzosos actions is too long for this or any other forum. Morally the good old USA is the leper of the world.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 17:27:53
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Morante

Chavez is getting a bit of a bum rap from Stephen, who just wants to call him names, and Bill, whose criteria is based on neo-liberalism. If you were rich or middle class (which in Latin America, means rich), you were probably worse off for Chavez. If you were an investor looking to commercially exploit Venezuela, the same. If you were poor, you probably did better because of him.

You will notice that if the leader of a country does not favor neo-liberal, Western-dominated finance or business, then he is a "dictator" and will be disposed of by coup, various forms of embargoes, or outright war. If he supports local elites and opens his country for Western exploitation, he is "one of our guys" and will receive favorable treatment in the media. It is often the same person (Noriega, Saddam, Khaddafi), but the narrative changes according to the stage of the game.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 17:36:07
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Morante

quote:

Well, I was not talking about Chavez, about whom i know nothing, I was talking about Spanish fascism.

But I remember well, when I was writing my thesis on the effect of information technology on the Third world, I discovered that the American multinationals and the American government were the most sinverguenza del mundo, overthrowing foreign governments, starting wars, putting pressure on Brazil to stifle its growning microcomputer industry etc, etc: the list of self interested vergonzosos actions is too long for this or any other forum. Morally the good old USA is the leper of the world.


I know that you were talking about Spanish Fascism. But it was in the context of my comment about Chavez's criticism, and my point is that Chavez was hardly in a position to criticize how Spain was governed, given the way he has run Venezuela. The only reason his policies have not run Venezuela completely into the ground is the vast reserves of oil that keep it afloat, in spite of his political and economic policies that have led to inflation, retarded growth, resulted in shortages, provoked an outflow of capital, and discouraged foreign direct investment.

Regarding your comment that, "Morally the good old USA is the leper of the world," I don't see a shred of evidence to back up all your accusations that preceded it. The US has engaged in some unsavory practices, but it also has done much good. You seem incapable of distinguishing between the two, preferring to take the easy way out by suggesting that the US has been nothing but "the leper of the world." It is so much easier to substitute bumper-sticker shibboleths for serious thought.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 17:48:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

Chavez is getting a bit of a bum rap from Stephen, who just wants to call him names,


Perhaps, but he lived up to those names. I could give him a bigger bum rap, but name calling is more creative, and name calling is pretty much what he based his statesmanship on. The defense of Chavez as a Robinhood archetype is pretty thin pickings. Mainly what he did was posturing, he's as dirty as any capitalist whom he so unartyfully preached against.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 17:52:14
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Dyt båt dynamolygte (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

and Bill, whose criteria is based on neo-liberalism.


...because done correctly, neo-libaralism (which is the "au-courant" term among academics and anthropologists, but which is simply capitalism and the free-enterprise system) works. Prime examples in Latin America are Chile (an economic leading light for decades) and, more recently, Mexico and Peru. The Asian Tigers are another example: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia Taiwan, and South Korea. And, of course, the biggest of all, China.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 18:03:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

My shop mate just said something very astute about the world today:

People are so desperate for a hero that they even consider guys like Chavez as a hero. I suppose I'm more cynical than neo-liberal; I would not consider him a hero. My heros are guys like John Coltrane or women like the President of Chile.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 18:23:29
 
brandoscostumes

 

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 28 2010
 

RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to XXX

they know that bill they just had the misfortune to read howard zinn at some point in some lame poly-sci class and think it is at once the height of rebellious cool and intelligence to have these opinions
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2013 18:25:51
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