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RE: Your musical interest apart from Flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
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c

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to mark74

This guy really explains it clearly
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 16:55:48
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1756
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

My point exactly !!!!!

Thanks for posting :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 17:11:26
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Leñador

Here's an article about Iris Caldwell, who sort of inspired "I saw her standing there" by the Beatles.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/going-out/music/the-beatles-teenager-who-inspired-paul-1362890

Maybe not Brazilian Playboy material, but she was a dancer. You know how that goes:
"Mr. Jones strikes up a conversation with a black-haired flamenco dancer
You know she dances while his father plays guitar
She's suddenly beautiful
We all want something beautiful"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 18:45:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

I know the dancer that song was written about. The Mr. Jones song.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 19:50:39
 
Leñador

Posts: 5234
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

quote:

I know the dancer that song was written about. The Mr. Jones song.


Really??? Is she beautiful? Does she live in SF?

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 20:06:56
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

Here's an article about Iris Caldwell, who sort of inspired "I saw her standing there" by the Beatles.



Not bad, Miguel, but she has not aged as well as Heloisa Eneida Menezes Pais Pinto, the girl who inspired "The Girl From Ipanema," as she walked by the beach front "Veloso Bar" every day while Antonio Carlos Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes were drinking inside.

Cheers,

Bill

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With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 20:32:18
 
estebanana

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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Bill's not kidding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helo%C3%ADsa_Pinheiro

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 22:44:14
 
runner

 

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."

Thus sayeth Richard Rodriguez, in Brown, 2002. Good book.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2013 23:39:51
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner

quote:

"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."


Those are great lyrics for a rap song, you just have to insert a line break everytime there's ponctuation on that text
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 0:38:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

I never knew Richard was that funky. Curious he mentions Beowolf.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 1:50:01
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

you just have to insert a line break everytime there's ponctuation on that text


One of the reasons I don't like most rap is that it is so predictable with the rhyme schemes. Most rap fits into samey rhythm templates that are intrinsically, well, boring.

And the beat is monochromatic.

If most rap songs where visually translatable into paintings, they would be large grey rectangles with a tiny bit if fuzzy lint stuck to the surface.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 1:53:46
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Flamencito

quote:

It seems to me that Flamenco attracts people from all kinds of music genres

not really, i dont like other genres of music... i never liked music before i met flamenco..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 2:35:50
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to kudo

quote:

quote:

It seems to me that Flamenco attracts people from all kinds of music genres

not really, i dont like other genres of music... i never liked music before i met flamenco..


Typical of your non-logic Kudo. First you say no to the idea stated; that flamenco attracts people from many other genres of music. Then in the same line of mis-punctuated text, as I would not call it an actual proper sentence, you say you never liked music before flamenco. So you're saying you are not interested in other music, yet you imply that you know that people from other genres don't like flamenco.

You're like an enigma wrapped in bacon, then deep fried in discombobulated silliness.




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 3:53:27
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

First you say no to the idea stated; that flamenco attracts people from many other genres of music

yes, i say no-because i didnt have a genre. i although i was forced to play classical music as a kid, i never liked it ..
quote:

you say you never liked music before flamenco.

yes, I would not listen to anything
quote:

So you're saying you are not interested in other music,

yes, I might kind of like something in other music, but doesnt mean im interested in that genre
quote:

yet you imply that you know that people from other genres don't like flamenco.

never mentioned anything about people..dont know where you are getting that from, which makes me think that you are the master enigma wrapped in bacon, then deep fried in discombobulated silliness.
quote:

Then in the same line of mis-punctuated text, as I would not call it an actual proper sentence

whatisthissupposedtobe?anessaywithgrammarandpunctuationchecks?idontcare,imabadwriter

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 4:08:40
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Ignorance of grammar is not an excuse for breaking grammatical laws young man.

You spoilt brat. Many children would have loved to have had classical music training.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 5:22:30
 
c

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana

I have broken no important grammar rules I hope
and did have some proper training for music
but it was so long ago
that by now,
I have found most of the funest music is about breaking rules
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 5:35:35
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12682
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I know the dancer that song was written about. The Mr. Jones song.

Who doesn't ?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 8:58:55
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Hey i just came across this chart. Anyone knows why this is?
I think i saw another chart too, about the "amount of knowledge about other genres", but cant find it right now. I wonder whether there might be a correlation to this chart?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 9:18:00
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana

Are you saying he's Scottish?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1227_041227_deep_fried_mars_bars.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 15:07:07
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to BarkellWH

Muito bom, doutor!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 15:08:14
 
runner

 

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Sr. Martins

Perhaps Hip-hop is bested regarded as chanted diatribe, in the form of "poetry". But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition. Being somewhat of a traditionalist, though, I prefer at least a suggestion of the presence of all three of our old friends Melody, Harmony, and Rhythm. I often settle for two out of three.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 18:03:16
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner

quote:

But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition.


Interesting you mention Milton Babbitt in relating to Rap/Hip hop. I often hear rappers and hip hoppers being interviewed talking about how they pioneered the ideas they call 'sampling', it always makes be guffaw loudly at the claim. It was exactly composers like Milton Babbitt who first started working on scores that were comprised of pre recorded and manipulated music or sounds. Namely, Musique Concrete was the French movement just post WWII into the 1950's that was based in sound sampling techniques. There are even older examples of manipulation of recorded sounds.

One of the definitions of music is that it is a duration of time marked out in some way and in that time a structure of sounds happen with alternating silences and soundings. Kind of a loose definition, but that makes a lot of things music, but all music is not musical even if it is definably music.

This definition makes the definition of music work for and against you. You can call something music which many others will not like, and vice versa.

So when Cage wrote the famous piece called 4'33" he was essentially bracketing time and saying within this formal time duration what ever happens is music. It served to make the listener accept or deny the definition of music I mentioned above, but it also served to allow one, or prompt one to hear music in everything. Besides being a clever idea, 4'33" is listening experience where you make the music by putting the sounds around you into a context. After you accept that the world sounds different forever after. Of course many composers throughout the history of music had reached that state without Cage's prompts, but the public was not ready for the musics is inspired and basically still are not.

When you listen to Miles Davis' album 'In a Silent Way' you can hear the influence of Cage or Musique Concrete and the aleatoric ideas that were in the air. A lot of the music on that album is basically a soundscape or sound poem created to give an impression of New York City at night as you would hear it sitting in your window over the street. Miles music was heard as much hipper than Milton Babbit's and more generally understood than Cages, but there are connections.

I wish I knew much more about music, it is fascinating stuff.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 21:59:45
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Another kind of Dada raps.





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2013 22:09:29
 
runner

 

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana

Banana, you certainly would appreciate the Leonard Meyer book, Music, the Arts, and Ideas, that I put forward in a previous post--Meyer digs into many of the issues that intrigue people about what music is and how it works and some more besides (the future of all of the arts). It may be, though, that the human nervous system is hard-wired to not accept as "music"-- meaning I want to hear a lot more of this sound/noise--serialism, or aleatoric music, or a lot of what passed as the coming thing in music. When Babbitt was awarded a special Pulitzer for his efforts in "modern" music, I wrote a Letter to the Editor, pointing out that nobody ever wanted to come to even free concerts of modern music. This while Babbitt and his tiny Band of Brothers alternated between complaining about the lack of funds to put on such concerts (nobody was interested), and saying sourly that "modern" composers ought to forget a larger public and write their stuff--if that's the term--only for each other. It is becoming clearer that serialism, and aleatoric, and other where's the melody? musics were really just dead ends, and will live only as a footnote in any history of future music.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2013 12:12:31
 
Deniz

Posts: 91
Joined: Feb. 16 2020
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Sorry to bring back this old discussion but I've been chewing on this question for a while lately and thought it might fit in here:

What did/do professional Flamenco players/stars think about other genres?
Like, it is known Paco loved Jazz. But did he like Rock music?

Or Camaron.. what kind of music was he into besides Flamenco?
Did they even listen to other kinds of music or were they completely spun up in the world and music of Flamenco?

I mean.. it was the 60s to 80s, loads of great music and albums came out.

What's with the "old timers"? Manolo Caracol.. Sabicas.. Nino Ricardo..

To also add something to the actual topic:
I'm quite into some Progressive Rock, namely King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree I like quite a bit, as well as into some Folk and other Rock-related genres.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2020 15:36:11
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12682
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Sorry to bring back this old discussion but I've been chewing on this question for a while lately and thought it might fit in here:

What did/do professional Flamenco players/stars think about other genres?
Like, it is known Paco loved Jazz. But did he like Rock music?

Or Camaron.. what kind of music was he into besides Flamenco?
Did they even listen to other kinds of music or were they completely spun up in the world and music of Flamenco?

I mean.. it was the 60s to 80s, loads of great music and albums came out.

What's with the "old timers"? Manolo Caracol.. Sabicas.. Nino Ricardo..

To also add something to the actual topic:
I'm quite into some Progressive Rock, namely King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree I like quite a bit, as well as into some Folk and other Rock-related genres.


In Rito y Geografia Lebrijano talks about pop rock genres that interest him. Also they show Chocolate sing some popular spanish song for fun with a totally different type of singing voice. I would say you can extrapolate from there that most of them and us like other genres but prioritize our time around flamenco for good reason. The story of Rayito, who was a virtuoso flamenco guitar prodigy who found a career creating Latin pop songs for the likes of Shakira and others, is a unique case.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2020 23:43:23
 
Deniz

Posts: 91
Joined: Feb. 16 2020
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

quote:

I would say you can extrapolate from there that most of them and us like other genres but prioritize our time around flamenco for good reason.

Well put, Ricardo!

The more I get into flamenco guitar playing, the more I notice how focusing on listening to and playing flamenco becomes a neccesity in order to not only get into the right mindset, but also because this is very artful and hard to play/sing music, which demands nothing less but all of you.

..yet still.. I can't help but to grab that Crimson Islands LP from the shelf or jam along a bit to Jimi's Purple Haze on my simple strat or swing my hips to some funky RHCP song every now and then.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2020 12:21:11
 
Neil

 

Posts: 62
Joined: Oct. 29 2018
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

When I only listened to flamenco, I still listened to other genres. Once I started playing flamenco, I realised there is barely enough time in life for anything else.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2020 14:20:34
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3306
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Deniz

quote:

Your musical interest apart from Flamenco?


you mean there's other kinds of music apart from flamenco? news to me....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2020 20:44:07
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 412
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c

Some electronic stuff like Skrillex in the main.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 8 2020 16:26:19
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