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"I guess my point is... which you are missing...is sometimes there is not this big secret monster to blame for a bad happening" sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.
"People are always pointing fingers." some people point their fingers to the right things
"Disturbed people do disturbing things" disturbed in your post means 2 things: a) you dont like the consequences of an action. Well thats easy, we can agree that its not nice to fly a plane into a building or shooting people for example in a war. b) it means you dont know or dont want to know a reason for their actions. This is just wrong.
"no amount of nurture and education can change that. " It really depends. Sometimes people do wrong things because they have wrong reasons. They would not act in a certain way if they had certain information. That implies that they can think properly and are not under a certain disease that affects their cognition or awareness. Flying a plane into a building is a very controlled, planned political act. It has the clear purpose of harming a state, which they consider their enemy. They have their reasons, which might be wrong, but they are reasons which lead to a certain behavior.
" I promise you, you WILL die. Now pretend you have the power to prevent every possible cause you can think of that might bring about your demise...will you then live forever? " Not sure if i understood that correctly, but the way its written here is self-contradictory. If i am able to remove any reasons that lead to death, then i WILL NOT die. Current science says though, even if you replace every aged organ with fresh ones, you Genome will still degenerate over time and so far there is no way to replace old, fractured genes with intact ones. But this is irrelevant anyway since most of the deaths are not naturally caused, in our beautiful capitalistic world.
"After which SOME nation will be "closest" to trying to achieve that, so "none" makes no sense as an answer anyway." "Closest" implies some form of "closeness". This is like asking which one of the lethal diseases is the least lethal one. Nations are not harmless, peacefull constructs. Neither towards their own population, nor towards foreign folks. The reason why this is derives from their contradicting economic interests, but i wont expand on that. Just to say, there is a reason for it too :D just like there is a reason for everything.
"IN the end you all know it's USA anyway." in your dreams. :)
Switzerland has many good attributes, but Swiss society values social conformity a little too much for my taste. I'll give you a perfect example of Swiss social conformity by relating the experience of a very good Swiss friend who I first met in Arizona in 1971. He was doing a post-doctoral program at Arizona State University, and he took every advantage of living in Arizona to visit desert locations, the Grand Canyon, the Navajo and Hopi Indian reservations, etc. We all lived in a student community near campus and would attend parties in levis, enjoy the comfortable and casual life-style that one finds throughout the US, but particularly in the Southwest.
After he finished his post-doc program, he returned to Switzerland, got married, and went to work. We kept up, and he would write how he missed living in the US, because he had to conform so much to Swiss social norms. The kicker for me was when he wrote that when he wanted to feel free and casual, he and his wife would put on levis in their home and show slides of scenes from his days in Arizona.
Cheers,
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Been trying to get that statement out of you forever. NOW....how about achieving this ideal situation? After you make that thought ask which nation on earth is closest to exactly that.
I estimate in Europe Norway to be rather progressed place, though all of the leading places in Scandinavia or Holland are seeing their steps backwards since some years now.
Currently I think to see the farthest of relative steps forward in latin America.
There are basics that should be targeted first in line for a switch to a resonable and communal society. Measures for rotation, diversification and people´s supervision of leading positions, transparency and efficiency in education, information, primare supply, people´s presentation etc.
But what I suggest as order of measures in particular is not of importance. Deceisive before all is illumination of the staus quo and its concrete repercussions.
Of priority being that people shall understand what actually is up. What has been irresponsible and destructive routine until now and that we are standing at the brink.
It needs the insight of the people and their will for a change. Then all sense and science shall be engaged on a broad level to prevent regain of corruption and lowly triviality, so that undisturbed working on adequacy for community and environment may take place.
Just think alone of an economical an educating system that would support careers tailored to talent. A system of production that fully realized and valued human power. Can you imagine what effects it would mean on peoples´ and production situation? Just the industrial quality would literally explode already. We would be flooded with genial makes and ideas! Technological progress even far surpassing the current one, and constructive applications in heaps.
Within short time all what now looks like huge handicaps like energy supply or transport would become nobrainer.
Let aside countless of needless hardships under our dull pharaohnic treadmills.
You don´t need to be a visionary to understand what could be sans crops of evil and dumbness.
Current science says though, even if you replace every aged organ with fresh ones, you Genome will still degenerate over time and so far there is no way to replace old, fractured genes with intact ones.
Latest is that what used to be considered useless tails of DNS strings are kind of capsules that degernate over time and let the structure corrupt. They say now, these can probably be halted from crumbling, hence us from aging.
Firt though, I´d suggest to let us scale down some reasonable numbers like maybe of 2-3 billions or so.
This darn overpopulation is another feudal / capitalist result.
Been trying to get that statement out of you forever. NOW....how about achieving this ideal situation? After you make that thought ask which nation on earth is closest to exactly that.
I estimate in Europe Norway to be rather progressed place, though all of the leading places in Scandinavia or Holland are seeing their steps backwards since some years now.
Currently I think to see the farthest of relative steps forward in latin America.
There are basics that should be targeted first in line for a switch to a resonable and communal society. Measures for rotation, diversification and people´s supervision of leading positions, transparency and efficiency in education, information, primare supply, people´s presentation etc.
But what I suggest as order of measures in particular is not of importance. Deceisive before all is illumination of the staus quo and its concrete repercussions.
Of priority being that people shall understand what actually is up. What has been irresponsible and destructive routine until now and that we are standing at the brink.
It needs the insight of the people and their will for a change. Then all sense and science shall be engaged on a broad level to prevent regain of corruption and lowly triviality, so that undisturbed working on adequacy for community and environment may take place.
Just think alone of an economical an educating system that would support careers tailored to talent. A system of production that fully realized and valued human power. Can you imagine what effects it would mean on peoples´ and production situation? Just the industrial quality would literally explode already. We would be flooded with genial makes and ideas! Technological progress even far surpassing the current one, and constructive applications in heaps.
Within short time all what now looks like huge handicaps like energy supply or transport would become nobrainer.
Let aside countless of needless hardships under our dull pharaohnic treadmills.
You don´t need to be a visionary to understand what could be sans crops of evil and dumbness.
Ruphus
On global scale no doubt. Lets say, hypothetically, you are in power and position to get the ball rolling. Your first order of business be, education? Now, what to do with those impeding your progressive idea of forward movement? What are you to do with these groups of people that oppose your ideas, and resent that YOU think they are "evil and dumb", and would in fact defend their own idea they are NOT, to the death???
Firt though, I´d suggest to let us scale down some reasonable numbers like maybe of 2-3 billions or so.
Doing away with 3 billion too many people be a "human" act? Which 3 billion did you have in mind? Only capitalists? It's news to me socialist type groups have so many less children than others. I thing you got that one backwards.
On global scale no doubt. Lets say, hypothetically, you are in power and position to get the ball rolling. Your first order of business be, education? Now, what to do with those impeding your progressive idea of forward movement? What are you to do with these groups of people that oppose your ideas, and resent that YOU think they are "evil and dumb", and would in fact defend their own idea they are NOT, to the death???
Just what seems to be done now with extremists. They are allowed of an opinion, but as they represent a small minority shall not feel provoked to engage in sabotage. If they do, they will be pusued. ( Theoretically. Current reality with right wingers is that they are rather tolerated and even pampered by states. In Germany first time under some unspeakable routines throughout post WWII, things have become a tad more illuminated recently.)
Extremists for one, because of their opposing attitude against assumedly educated majority, but also on macro level. For advocating exploitation of fellow men and environment in fact is extremistical.
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ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
I was replying to Bill's last post, not yours.
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I treplied to that already. Why does it appear important to you?
Firt though, I´d suggest to let us scale down some reasonable numbers like maybe of 2-3 billions or so.
Doing away with 3 billion too many people be a "human" act? Which 3 billion did you have in mind? Only capitalists? It's news to me socialist type groups have so many less children than others. I thing you got that one backwards.
No. what I meant is reduction of population down to 2-3 billion heads. Some may be quittzing reproducing due to their viewing of the global situation. (That´s what I have done, despite protests on partner´s side. - Sometimes regretting personally, but whatever.)
Further, nature seems to have started on reducing the excess already, by sending us catastrophies and micro organisms.
Finally, a reasonable community will not have uinderprivilegeds producing additional offspring as old-age security.
No. what I meant is reduction of population down to 2-3 billion heads.
Oh excuse me...you want to do away with 7 BILLION people!
Your partner not happy? There's the rub...why is it capitalist thing? So the uneducated, how you keep them from reproducing with similar "partner" concerns?
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Finally, a reasonable community will not have uinderprivilegeds producing additional offspring as old-age security.
Well, according to your ideal, there won't BE underprivilegeds at all...so...what to stop them reproducing if they want? You are painting yourself into an ugly corner so I will stop.
Is it really relevant whether it be such actors and environment, or same things arranged in light flooded sophisticated / easy-going appearing ambience?
Yes it's matter coz like I said conspirationist created a sphere of explanation where they depicted secretive activities as the rules. It's not like this. Information is accessible for investigators. Yourself quoted Der Spiegel more than once as a reliable source. The BIG prob is that mainstream medias are not interested in allowing time and presence to alternative narrative. They're obviously a big part in the perception that something hidden is going on. But that doesn't mean investigations aren't going on. Like I said authors try to analyse and offer plausible explanations to the moves we faced.
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Whether pictured in gloomy or conference rooms, fact is that the unbearable ways we have driven in are NOT coming about coincidentally or "naturally" by any means. That´s what is relevant.
I absolutly agree with you. There's no coincidence. Logical forces are on works. What is going on now is the result of a 30 or 40 years long economical doctrine. But it has nothing to do with secret organizations.
Let me explain myself with one example : Hurricane Katherina.
Conspirationist believe that some dark forces dynamite the retention dames. Why? To to drive out the black inhabitants from the districts. That's classic blabla BS. While they offer this narrative, they obviously not focus on other explanations. Such as that the dikes were in bad shape coz of the govt cut spending to maintain state infrastructure. For the privatization of that job. Entrepreneurials who get the contracts are more interested to make profit than to ensure public service/safety etc... The bad guys just have to wait for to catastrophy to happen. They don't need to provoke them. All this crap is part of the system. It's how it's regenerate himself. But once again there's NO secrets organization behind that. Just an economical logic...
As I said for me conspirationists divert opinion from the REAL stuff. (Btw notice that I have my own conspiracy theory about the conspirationist...ahahah what a vicious circle )
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Lets say, hypothetically, you are in power and position to get the ball rolling. Your first order of business be, education?
Man my 1st action would be to declare illegal the banking secret. Than after that I'd design tax havens as terrorist states and traders as public ennemies and send them to Guantanamo
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
No. what I meant is reduction of population down to 2-3 billion heads.
Oh excuse me...you want to do away with 7 BILLION people!
What´s the matter with you? Sommersaulting for penning in? 7-2=5, 7-3=4 So, with 4 or 5 billion people less than now we should be back to a reasonable number of population on this planet. And yes, this excess has emerged exclusively from the yields of exploitative econnomies.
As we have been saying that education to be of first priority, the hypothetical proceedings of uneducated should be of least concern in the suggested future.
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ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Well, according to your ideal, there won't BE underprivilegeds at all...
Correct.
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ORIGINAL: Ricardo
so...what to stop them reproducing if they want?
The main reasons for over producing under given conditions appear to be providence of social pension and children mortality. Among neither uneducated nor underprivileged partners requests for more than three kids will be so little natural, that an event of more than 3 should be demographically neglectable. People then should need no restrictive policies.
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ORIGINAL: Ricardo You are painting yourself into an ugly corner so I will stop.
No worries there. ... If it was worrying actually, and not wishing. (?)
There is a lot of secrecy going on. Secrecy and bribe to enable contracts to the disadvantage of states and municipal party ( draining of states budgets ). Secrecy to defy an allegedly free market through contradictives like customs, price riggings and sequence of gradings with pricing, market shares and official deals. Secrecy for lobbyism to tailoring laws for putting at disadvanatge consumers, to introduce irrational norms and routines and official requests for keeping competition out. Secrecy for ordering yet the most odd of official edicts and labels to prevent product exclusion for hooch or poison, inspection of groceries, textiles ... etc.pp.
Secrecy indeed is excessive. And thus not at last the times of DER SPIEGEL as a once truely investigatve editorial are long since over, while the press is seeing severe steps back into handicap and censoring since over 2 decades now.
What remains as actually open is the internet and our exchange here, which appears like being circled in for alterations as well however. ( Of which some have been officially rejected not long ago in the USA.) Outlines for mirroring etc. seem to exist for a while already.
And where I am rumours about a mirroring system and actual intranet delivered by the Chinese are floating around. Sometimes, in view of certain weird phenomenons, almost appearing as if it could be in place already.
Anyway, in a insincere and injust economy secrecy means money. A very lot of money. It makes for an essential factor of the ways of econmizing that we live with.
- Even on side of the milked. In Germany even little people make a fuzz about their income. If they don´t employer won´t appreciate their openess, as it threatens to harm profits from labour.
Firt though, I´d suggest to let us scale down some reasonable numbers like maybe of 2-3 billions or so.
How about child licences. You have to go somewhere, take a test, pass an interview and show a personal profit & loss statement. You have one child without a licences, we take it. You have two children, we sterilize you. This may seem extreme at first but we'd get used to it.
I'm joking..........kinda, when I see how some people breeding I don't hate this idea starts to sound reasonable.
You've never seen someone with kids and said "I can't believe that person is procreating......."
Honestly, with all the potential grammatical errors I can't tell what idea you are trying to convey
He's asking a hypothetical question without using a question mark. It's not good 'castellano' to a native English speaker either even though I knew what it meant.
Ironically the statistics show that the more education a person has, the less likely it is that person will have children.
An oxymoron is a statement or phrase which is self canceling. 'Military Intelligence' is the classic oxymoron. The statement does not have to be true, it only has to self cancel in some way even if it is a joke.
Jumbo shrimp is a fun one too. We use shrimp as a euphemism for diminutive. Jumbo shrimp is like saying giant small.
But as the only contender to carry on the family name I feel obligated to leave a legacy, regardless of how ****ed up the world really is.
The world is not as fukkked up as pessimists want to portray it. Please have some children, I'll babysit, I like kids. Your kids will be great for the world.
There's a reason why at the end of a Shakespeare tragedy the kids are brought out at the end to the play. It means the audience will not leave a tragic play ready to commit hara kiri because children are our hope.
Doesn't it make you want to have more kids because the world is messed up and needs more normal people?
In the US the stats tell us that those with higher college degrees have fewer children than those who do not. And also that Democrats have fewer children than Republicans. The reason is that the more advanced your education the less likely you are to identify as Republican.
More stats, unmarried men live shorter lives than married men. Women who are married live shorter lives than single women.
Whatever you do, have lots and lots of sex and have kids. Especially those of you who want them. No matter what your IQ is, you should have kids, just make sure you care about them.
It always makes me really happy when I see a couple who is developmentally disabled and they go against what all the retarded doctors and social workers say, and the idiots in society and they produce a child. It's wonderful.
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