Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
Ancient Kauri
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login | |
|
Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
|
Ancient Kauri
|
|
|
Since years I am keen to see ancient Kauri used for classical guitars ( and negras) and have been trying to attract luthiers´ attention for this material. However, at first there was near zero info available, and the folks who have hands on logging these trunks from swamps in New Zealand ceased talking to me ( I was inquring for AG blanks ) after me critisized their making use of such unique material for plain furnitures, while to my understanding such should be used for instruments in the first place. Anyway, every other time I make another search to check out actual info on the matter, and so did today after recalling this material while posting in Anders´violine thread. Here some info just found on Ancientwood, Ltd. ( http://ancienttonewood.com/?page_id=594 ) quote:
Working with Ancient Kauri The Ancient Kauri offers an unequaled look into time, well before the last ice age. Yet because it can be shaped and worked in ways that are comfortable and familiar, we get a connection to a time in a way not found anywhere else in the world today. It is difficult to describe exactly what the subtleties of any wood are, as they change from piece to piece and grain to grain. Ancient Kauri can be cut, shaped, sanded, and finished with normal techniques. Although the wood is similar in density to Cherry, with textures similar to Basswood and Mahogany, the Ancient Kauri is an unmatched wood to work with. Facts These massive trees grew for approximately 2,000 years before falling into swamps. The earth has held these logs for over 50,000 years. The Ancient Kauri is very wet when it leaves the ground and is kept wet for its journey to the US. Upon arrival at our facility in Northern Wisconsin, the wood is kiln-dried to a moisture content between 6 and 8 percent. Ancient Kauri is not an oily wood. Ancient Kauri is in no way petrified. Standard glues and joining practices work great with Ancient Kauri. Frequently Asked Questions How will my Ancient Kauri bend? As experienced luthiers know, patience is the best tool to use. Here are some techniques from luthiers experienced with Ancient Kauri. Stefan Nicholas, an innovative builder of classical guitars since the early 90’s, likes to use a veneer softener such as Better Bond Super Soft when working with Ancient Kauri. Stefan’s method includes using a liberal application of softener, then returning an hour later and replicating the process: letting the wood stand for another two to three hours. In the next step, Stefan places a few sheets of paper towel on each side of the board, pressing them flat with medium density fiberboard (MDF) and clamps; replacing the paper towel twice a day for four days. Once in the mold, Stefan leaves the wood until moisture is void -usually seven days. Stefan states that a liberal application over a period of three to four days will make the sides very pliable in the mold. We have used this technique successfully as well. John Grey, an experienced builder and innovative repair expert, reports that soaking the sides overnight before boiling them helps the pliability immensely. Should grain lifting occur, dilute the wood glue with one-third water (for better penetration) to stabilize lifted grain. A great tip from John is to use a wine cork for your clamping caul as it will provide even pressure on the curve. Joshua Muntur, founder of Homeless Dog Custom Guitars, states that it is necessary to allow the sides to dry completely before removing them from the forms. What does Ancient Kauri sound like? We cautiously approach this subject, as tone is very subjective. Jordan Grunow, owner of over forty electric guitars notes a present upper midrange attack supported by a well balanced and warm sustain in a solid body Kauri Telecaster. Builders of acoustic guitars have uniformly expressed satisfaction with their instruments: The Kauri is just magnificent and the tone is awesome! Thanks again and I will be buying some more Kauri soon! Do I need pore or grain sealer to finish Ancient Kauri? Finishing Ancient Kauri does not require the use of a grain sealer. What type of finish should I use? Ancient Kauri will accept any of your favorite finishing methods. The wood does not have inherent properties that would prevent you from using one product over another. We suggest customers use the techniques that are most successful in their shop. There is no reason to vary from your usual finishing methods. We do suggest that you sand the Ancient Kauri to a very fine grit before finishing. Over 1000 grit is not uncommon. What is the specific gravity of Ancient Kauri? The Kauri tree grew as a softwood -a conifer. However, the characteristics of the Ancient Kauri are similar to hardwoods such as soft maple or cherry, or Mahogany There are differences in the density of the Ancient Kauri from one piece to another, without significant changes in outward appearance. The changes seem to be related to its location underground for thousands of years. With no change in the color or outward appearance, the pieces that are lighter and less dense seem to have been buried near an underwater flowage of some sort. The pieces that are more dense seem to be from more stable ground. There are accurate scientific measurements available for modern Kauri, but Ancient Kauri has endured changes while underground: within one tree there can be significant variation. It is important to note that the following data refers to research on the more modern growth Kauri, harvested using traditional logging methods. It is quoted from Forest Products Lab Center for Wood Anatomy Research Fact Sheet on Kauri. Due to the changes present in this 50,000 year old wood, we do not believe this data is always accurate for the Ancient Kauri. Since we lack any other specific scientific data, we make this available. Weight: Basic specific gravity (oven-dry weight/green volume) 0.41 to 0.47; air- dry density 30 to 36 pcf. M echanical Properties: (First two sets of data based on the 2-in. standard, the third set on the 2- cm standard.) Moisture content (%) Green (34) 12% Bending strength (Psi) 6,600 11,750 Modulus of elasticity (1,000 psi) 1,330 1,650 Maximum crushing strength (Psi) 2,840 5,900 Green (15) 12% 7,790 13,070 1,570 1,890 3,370 5,600 Green (35) 12% Side hardness 480 to 760 lb for green material and 700 to 870 lb at 12% moisture content. 8,570 13,600 1,400 1,600 4,040 6,900 Drying and Shrinkage: The timber is reported to season well with little or no degrade. Kiln schedule T7-B3 is suggested for 4/4 stock (A. alba) and kiln schedule T10-D5S for 4/4 stock (A. australis and A. vitiensis). Shrinkage green to ovendry: radial 4.2%; tangential 6.0% (A. alba). Working Properties: The timber works easily with hand and machine tools, finishes with a clean smooth surface; good nailing and screwing properties; good veneer peeling characteristics; paints and polishes well; easy to glue. Other Tips Plan to spend extra time sanding the Ancient Kauri. While sanding to 600 grit will suffice, the most intense color, depth, grain, and iridescent qualities come through with very fine sanding - up to 1200 grit. Extra effort gives extra rewards, and once you have passed 320 grit, sanding becomes more like polishing and you can move through the grits quickly. Ruphus
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Attachment (1)
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2013 10:47:45
|
|
Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
|
RE: Ancient Kauri (in reply to Ruphus)
|
|
|
KM, Absolutey, light-blue like with the eagle, or bright turquoise seem the ideal counter for reddish / golden wood! Years ago when still thinking I could build a wooden house, I was envisioning reddish wood and small turquoise dots of accessoirs. Yet tinkering with rosette design, trying to find out what could be best for a desert island guitar; and could be things to end up with just a pale ( ton sur ton) image. ( Only showing that I havn´t yet wettened my toes in the flood of potential options.) But colourful options are still in the game. Sean, That is an interesting hint there, about Kauri possibly fitting for blancas. I have always thought of it as hardwood-like, because of its long term soak and storage, which I imagenined as procedures nearing it to hard wood characteristics. Hearing from you about it as a blanca option seems to make sense, seeing how the tree is actually a connifer species and even described as soft to work on ( the latter which I read of today first time). That´s rather good news to me, as blancas are my first thought regarding nylon guitars. Anders, If I may wildly gather: Could it be the methods described to be occasionally engaged in the acoustic steel string making for heavier builds, when it is aimed for thicker sides without laminating? >just speculating< Ruphus
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2013 19:02:29
|
|
estebanana
Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
|
RE: Ancient Kauri (in reply to Ruphus)
|
|
|
Meh, Kauri is is just another kind of Gum tree. Granted it gets big and grows for up to 2000 years. But it's wood is a lot like various Eucalyptus. In San Francisco there are many turn of the century houses (19th to 20th century) that have built in dining room cabinets made of Kauri, and interior doors and trim work. The wood was brought from New Zealand in ships while they were deforesting New Zealand of Kauri between the 1880s and 1920's. They usually varnished it and later when clear finishes were out of style they panted over it. Once in a while you can see a house with Kauri wood trim under varnish. To replace Kauri in historical restorations, which I have done, carpenters select local Eucalyptus that was imported here in the 19th century and grows like weeds. It is a treeweed. Then one can take a sample of the existing trim and give it to a mill, not very many of these around any longer (Thanks Ikea!) and have the trim pattern matched on a shaper cutter head. Then hundreds of lineal feet of Gum wood can be dimensioned and shaped to match the Kauri trim. A bit of stain and you get a match. That is if the Yuppies who own the house don't paint over the 100 year old Ancient Kauri with Martha Stewart's flat interior latex 'Ultraviolet Mauve'...."Honey, honey! * stamps feet* You know I don't like plain wood, lets paint it.." She/he whined. BTW "Ancient Kauri" is a trade name in the lumber business. It is the same type of blanket over trade name like "Ipe'" which is a whole bunch of species of Amazonian Basin Ironwoods packaged under one name so those who can't parse out different species don't get confused. Ancient Kauri is just a marketers way of saying : Agricultural and waste salvaged timber. Not as sexy is it? Ah, but will it make a guitar? Yes it will make guitar. And if you get one made of Ancient Kauri you can get a huge erection showing it to all the other guys and saying it Ancient Kauri. Because that is what rare wood is all about, one guy getting a "special" wood species so he can show it to other guys and they can all draw in a deep breath and say "Oh my God, my pants are so tight right now!" Meanwhile the plainest wood makes great guitars. Schwing! Party on Garth. So in conclusion having one made with "Ancient Kauri" TM will be the same as buying thirty packages of Viagra. Further questions?
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2013 21:49:33
|
|
Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
|
RE: Ancient Kauri (in reply to Ruphus)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana Meh, Kauri is is just another kind of Gum tree. Granted it gets big and grows for up to 2000 years. But it's wood is a lot like various Eucalyptus. In San Francisco there are many turn of the century houses (19th to 20th century) that have built in dining room cabinets made of Kauri, and interior doors and trim work. The wood was brought from New Zealand in ships while they were deforesting New Zealand of Kauri between the 1880s and 1920's. They usually varnished it and later when clear finishes were out of style they panted over it. Once in a while you can see a house with Kauri wood trim under varnish. To replace Kauri in historical restorations, which I have done, carpenters select local Eucalyptus that was imported here in the 19th century and grows like weeds. It is a treeweed. Then one can take a sample of the existing trim and give it to a mill, not very many of these around any longer (Thanks Ikea!) and have the trim pattern matched on a shaper cutter head. Then hundreds of lineal feet of Gum wood can be dimensioned and shaped to match the Kauri trim. A bit of stain and you get a match. That is if the Yuppies who own the house don't paint over the 100 year old Ancient Kauri with Martha Stewart's flat interior latex 'Ultraviolet Mauve'...."Honey, honey! * stamps feet* You know I don't like plain wood, lets paint it.." She/he whined. BTW "Ancient Kauri" is a trade name in the lumber business. It is the same type of blanket over trade name like "Ipe'" which is a whole bunch of species of Amazonian Basin Ironwoods packaged under one name so those who can't parse out different species don't get confused. Ancient Kauri is just a marketers way of saying : Agricultural and waste salvaged timber. Not as sexy is it? Ah, but will it make a guitar? Yes it will make guitar. And if you get one made of Ancient Kauri you can get a huge erection showing it to all the other guys and saying it Ancient Kauri. Because that is what rare wood is all about, one guy getting a "special" wood species so he can show it to other guys and they can all draw in a deep breath and say "Oh my God, my pants are so tight right now!" Meanwhile the plainest wood makes great guitars. Schwing! Party on Garth. So in conclusion having one made with "Ancient Kauri" TM will be the same as buying thirty packages of Viagra. Further questions? No questions, but a statement. You are apparently suffering under inferiourity complex and material envy. To picture me as wanting Kauri for status symbol and for showing off, only displays your observating disability. People who became close acquaintance over the course of my life would laugh about your triviality. Including those whose ways parted in discord. I can state with confidence to have if anything been understating in life. So much that it has more often than not been to my disadvantage. The point is, jelous Stephen, that I do not need engaging on such pity level. I can mingle with yet the most trendy cliques who commonly will glance at folks from head to toe, scanning for fashion or no-no, dressing worn out jeans and nameless sneakers and be appreciated and respected despite. I will be treated like a gentleman in lofty ambience despite my worn 4 decades old fringe coat, and people like talking to me independently from their education. What else ... Girls? Lesser since I moved to Near East, as I go out much lesser now. But until five years ago, you would never believe me anyway, and lesser even about guys who had all the status symbols way above some 200 bucks for Kauri only to burst with envy as the lads could care less. Have you ever been among the rich that you are talking about? I have, and how would I be trying to impress with what couldn´t impress me. - I find kauri attractive for the precise reasons listed in my post above. One of them being the same that makes me stand for little ages before vitrines of prehistorical artifacts. A completely other world than of your sparse imagination. Here you can watch how the hoax of ancient logs are actually retrieved: http://www.ancientkauri.co.nz/index.php/extract_raw_logs/photos_extract_kauri And as you claim to like books, a special selection about ancient kauri: “Kauri Timber Days” by John Diamond & Bruce W Hayward. The Bush Press, 1990 “Kauri Past and Present” by Gordon Ell. The Bush Press, 1994 “The Figs and the Vines” by The Dalmatian Pioneer Trust, 1997 “Foote Prints Among the Kauri” by Bill Haigh. Bill Haigh, “The Kauri Museum – Matakohe” by Gordon Ell. The Bush Press, 2005 “The Kauri Gumdiggers – The Story of Kauri Gum” by Sir Alfred Reed. Bush Press, 2006 “Kauri Witness to a Nation” – by Joanna Orwin. Auckland University Press 2005 Better try looking at the world beyound your personal perspective. Cheers, Ruphus
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 11 2013 0:14:25
|
|
Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
|
RE: Ancient Kauri (in reply to Jeff Highland)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff Highland Hey Ruphus, here's a build thread from a coleague of mine on the ANZLF Ancient Kauri back and sides Kauri soundboard http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3789&p=45454&hilit=ancient+kauri#p45454 Wow, amazing! The guys has tools ( and friends with some)! I appreciate handwork, specially when it is supposed to consider woods individual sound properties. But I dig special tools too like in this shop. Must be great to have that convenience. Like when sawing out the heel. Why not, instead of rasping it all. ( To my experience it won´t really take that long to rasp such a quantity, but when about pro work / daily work I´d in case certainly prefer the power tools. - At least for the blank from, before final shaping.) The braces look mighty bold, but I think this was the first time that I saw a steeler from inside anyway. These braces are shaped just perfectly even, as if meant for external use. And the inlay ... acoustic guitar players are just allowed more kitsch ... I sure like the tight precision, and there is something to it. Adornment of a loved instrument. What irritates me however is the nacked soundhole. My eyes aren´t used to such and just wished there was at least prior to the inlay inserted a rim. I really love seeing such perfect working environment, and the result of it. However, where would with such a predefined production routine be the individual response to the woods properties ( varying masses according to density / resonation )? Will it allow for optimal construction? Ruphus
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 11 2013 1:20:54
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.125 secs.
|