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Come on guys, knock it off. Go do something productive. My 8 year old son and his friends get into these escalating stupid word contests, all the time - It is very tiresome. MUST I read this on a guitar forum as well?
Regardless who says "he started it", you cannot have a fire without fuel, heat, and oxygen ...
Just to be clear, Anders did not criticize or devalue Ricardo neither as an artist nor as a player. He just made an observation about flamenco culture in Spain, which may be debatable, may be not. From what i gather, Anders lives in Spain. Also, some people need to learn to play the ball, not the player. Criticize the things people say, not their "authorities". Then you automatically save all those ad hominem attacks, which the act of focusing on the person ultimately leads to.
Come on guys, knock it off. Go do something productive. My 8 year old son and his friends get into these escalating stupid word contests, all the time - It is very tiresome. MUST I read this on a guitar forum as well?
Regardless who says "he started it", you cannot have a fire without fuel, heat, and oxygen ...
Jeff, I understand what you say and sometimes I feel the same.
BUT. We were having a discussion. One may like it or not. And Norman just walks in saying nothing about the discussion and starts throwing dirt and doing a lot of personal attacks on my person, my playing, whatever that has to do with me. Totally off topic by the way.
Am I not in my rights to defend myself... Because if not, I cannot be a member of this forum.
I perhaps only see things simplistically at times. I just see Paco Cepero smiling and goofing around on the guitar .... I thought this is cool, I don't really care about it ... But hey what the heck. I just read the bickering about it, and perhaps because my kids are always fighting about similar stuff ... I brought my annoyance to the Foro :)
Jeff, as I told you, I totally understand your annoyance when you read this stuff and its not something that I´m proud of being a part of. But as I stated, the viking terrier in me barks back when someone throws dirt at me.
Yeah, Cepero is sweet. He´s a big andalucian flamenco teddy bear. And he´ll always be in my top 3 flamenco guitarist forever list.
BUT, living in Andalucia, means listening to a lot of semi flamenco elevator music and it gets annoying. There´s really a lot of it, so maybe here you have me taking my sh*it with me to the foro.
I have always liked that rumba... the same way I like a well crafted pop song. It's just one side of what Cepero does. I don't think we can fault him for this music or whatever he does with composing popular songs. He is obviously a flamenco personality and a legend. He has a great musical mind so why not dabble in other kinds of music? Any musician likes creating music that people will respond to and this is easily accessible stuff.
Anders, any chances that La Hungara is part of your list?
uuuuhhhhhhhh... Thats ´chungo´or chungisimo. And there´s tons of it here. And if you say Rumbas to a Andaluz, what comes to their mind is this or maybe a ´coro rociero, but definately not something flamenco. I think that a program like that would not be allowed in many other european countrys. There are rules on what you are allowed to do with kids on the telly.
Andy, I kind of like parts of that piece myself and he plays very well, but its very cheasy and the question was if it was elevator music. And yes, its what I expect to hear in an elevator here in Andalucia.
Anders, indirect British insults are not 'sick' or 'sleazy', they are a high art form. What gets my goat is when people like Norman present stuff that ignorant people might mistake for real indirect British condescension, but which is in fact just a watered-down pastiche of the real thing. That's wrong.
Anders, indirect British insults are not 'sick' or 'sleazy', they are a high art form. What gets my goat is when people like Norman present stuff that ignorant people might mistake for real indirect British condescension, but which is in fact just a watered-down pastiche of the real thing. That's wrong.
I laughed like a 'mo fo' when I read this. I've been insulted by Brits and it took me five years to understand they were -not - inviting me to high tea.
We had these discussions in the past. 3 iffy forms were sevillanas, rumba and even fandangos. I pointed out there are groups of people that perform one of these 3 forms exclusively that are NOT considered flamenco artists. Then we notice that vast majority of flamenco artists can and do interpret all 3. I think the only one of the 3 that was considered definantly NOT in flamenco family of songs was sevillanas. Sorry I am not gonna go look that up.
Sometimes I have heard Sevillanas done by singers with rajo and guitarists that play just so and it can be really flamenco. Is it Solea? No, but still nice to hear and see.
Cepero should be able to play rumba now and then without catching too much hell.
Anders, indirect British insults are not 'sick' or 'sleazy', they are a high art form.
Its ok, to to use this "high art" with people that has a chance to understand and reply.
But using it against someone who has english as a third language, on an internet forum, is totally lack of respect and only shows how low a level that person has.....
Unfortunately, its done way to much. Also on this forum.
Anders, indirect British insults are not 'sick' or 'sleazy', they are a high art form.
Its ok, to to use this "high art" with people that has a chance to understand and reply.
But using it against someone who has english as a third language, on an internet forum, is totally lack of respect and only shows how low a level that person has.....
Unfortunately, its done way to much. Also on this forum.
If you guys never heard it there is a live disc recorded in germany 1969... camaron maria vargas lebrijano....PDL plays guajiras and panaderos and the rest of the guitar is cepero including some rumbas he sings. THe buleria Maria sings is Perla style but as a singular performance of flamenco between the two, I never heard better and every flamenco I meet and share that track with tends to agree. THe best guitar for cante ever. Probably one of the best all round flamenco discs ever... interms of baile, cante and guitar solo all wrapped up into one concert. Great fidelity too.
Ricardo, I just got that 1969 live recording you talked about. Really good. Those bulerías Cepero plays with Maria Vargas are just unbelievable! Damn... he is just out of this world... my whole house shakes with the power of his rasgueos...
Saying gilipollas in public is considered a VERY strong insult. Its like saying idiot in public in English.
(idiot is just about most inoffensive insult you could say.... you want to really offend in English call someone a cnut - just about the only swear you don't hear on tv)
(idiot is just about most inoffensive insult you could say.... you want to really offend in English call someone a cnut - just about the only swear you don't hear on tv)
I´m sorry if my knowledge of english is not good enough for posting on this forum. But I do know what Gilipollas means in Spanish and the grade of insult it is to use it on a public place like this one. My Spanish level is good even though I might forget to put a questions mark in the correct place.
I´m sorry if my knowledge of english is not good enough for posting on this forum.
hey, i never said your English wasn't good enough for the forum, your English is fine, and more than adequate for the forum.... sorry for laughing, i didn't mean to offend
If you guys never heard it there is a live disc recorded in germany 1969... camaron maria vargas lebrijano....PDL plays guajiras and panaderos and the rest of the guitar is cepero including some rumbas he sings. THe buleria Maria sings is Perla style but as a singular performance of flamenco between the two, I never heard better and every flamenco I meet and share that track with tends to agree. THe best guitar for cante ever. Probably one of the best all round flamenco discs ever... interms of baile, cante and guitar solo all wrapped up into one concert. Great fidelity too.
Ricardo, I just got that 1969 live recording you talked about. Really good. Those bulerías Cepero plays with Maria Vargas are just unbelievable! Damn... he is just out of this world... my whole house shakes with the power of his rasgueos...
Awesome glad its still available and you found it. More positivity in this place is needed for sure.
You´re right, but it shouldnt be negative to say how things are. At least, it was never meant to be from my side. I believe we are doing the best when we know where we are and on this foro, there´s a huge tendency to avoid seing what is going on.
there´s a huge tendency to avoid seing what is going on.
seeing something and complaining is quite different than DOING something about it.
Exactly. Its a condition to it. Without an authentic observation and a correct criticism on things as to WHY they are going wrong, any action you take will not be the right one.
seeing something and complaining is quite different than DOING something about it.
When I write what I have written these past days, the intention has been to do something about it, to say what I have experienced and to express my thoughts on the furure of flamenco. The tendency on the foro is that everything is cool and everything is going so well etc..... I dont agree and I´ve tryed doing something. I can see that the foro doesnt like that and I will stop.
You on the other hand prefer to post a lot of little ironic messages with semi hidden hints to me. You have done that at least 4 - 5 times the past few days. Dont you have the guts to say what you mean. I would have prefered you to say that I should shut up or piss of, because the final message of your little hints is the same.
But dont worry. I will leave it. I think we have reached a dead end
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