Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket.
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login | |
|
estebanana
Posts: 9373
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to Mordorito)
|
|
|
quote:
I seriously think you would enjoy making sushi. It has a similar artisan aspect of building guitars, you get immediate feedback and satisfaction from your customers, but it is more marketable in the long-run. If you were able to get experience in Japan, that would be a competitive advantage for you should you ever leave Japan. It is somewhat hard on the body, though, so this may not be the best alternative . It takes about ten years to get good at it. Just like everything else. I will become an expert on eating sushi. I suppose I should not complain the future might be fun, at least food wise, but I'm not counting on the romantic idea that the Japanese embrace crafts and arts more than in America. Sushi is one of those things, I have had good sushi from cutters of various backgrounds, buy I always find the Japanese are better at it. Sort of the way Gitanos sing better flamenco than everyone else. In my opinion, I guess there a few non gypsy singers, but I can't think of them right now... And all those little oily fish have lots of omega 3 fatty acids to help the aging brain stay in shape. My girlfriends dad said the mayor of the town wants to come visit us when we get there, so I could host game show: American Douchebags in Exile. I could have my buddies come stay with us a talk to the mayor on TV and do stupid stuff. I really hope it all dies down quickly I really just want to be unknown and hide.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 3 2013 23:40:35
|
|
aarongreen
Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to estebanana)
|
|
|
All of this is simply life in a free market and of course business ethics which is always subjective and a matter of perspective. A dealer who chooses to promote a maker is putting his or her own reputation on the line. If the dealer really believes that the guitar has quality and there is something there to sell upon, then thats business and like it or not, we are all in business when we hang out our shingle. The price of any guitar should be as much about the quality of that particular guitar as much as the name on the label. Anyone, dealer or otherwise is free to price whatever guitar they have at whatever price they choose, it's their guitar now. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I've sold a few guitars for more than the average price simply because it was an exceptionally good example of that builder's work. My first priority is to provide for my family. Since I (foolishly?) choose to try and do that as a builder and dealer of guitars the bottom line is always present. However my business model is based on my integrity as a builder which is always strive to go beyond that which is expected and work as hard as I have to to ensure a happy client. If I succeed in that goal then I have done good and if I do well by doing so, all the better. I have to disagree with the regional label of "racket". That to me is assigning greed or any other unsavory trait in the human condition, to a specific group when we all know that it's universal. As a dealer I have made the decision to not represent makers directly, for a few reasons not the least of which being I am a maker first and foremost. The other is I know how much work it is to sell a guitar, how much time it takes and effort on my part. I know that if I were to represent a maker directly then I would have to ask them to take a good size cut in their price. Not something I really feel comfortable doing as I didn't really like that when I was represented by dealers. I ended all those relationships simply because of the economics. That and I don't love building guitars so much that being removed from direct interaction with my clients is a trade off I am willing to make. To me the interaction with my client is exactly what I love about building and selling guitars. I also have to disagree with the idea that pros are better judges of quality than amateurs. It's simply not true. Pros might be a better judge of what will or will not work for them but some of the best ears I've encountered are not stuck on the heads of professional guitarists. That's just my personal opinion. Further on the amateur note, no less a luthier than Robert Bouchet was an amateur guitarmaker his entire life. We should all aspire to be that kind of amateur. Basically what I am saying is making a living in lutherie as either a builder, dealer or both is a very hard row to hoe. To try and do so runs a very big risk of burning out, being miserable with the amount of work vrs. the monetary payoff, feeling overlooked, questions the success of your peers etc. I'm not excluding myself from any of that, I've experienced all of that and still do. As far as I can tell though this is still one of the most honorable professions when it comes to the professional behavior of those who engage in it.
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 4 2013 14:09:54
|
|
Mark2
Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to aarongreen)
|
|
|
Exactly-any activity or business is subject to individuals who promote themselves beyond their abilities. There is a local musician who advertises his services as a flamenco guitarist. He explained his selections as "Fendangoes, Soleerares, bullerrias, sigurrias, tengos, etc" I was amused, and sent him a private note advising that his ad might be more convincing if he spelled the names of the forms correctly. He responded by telling me he was a full time pro, and to F&%# off. :-) Since he spams craigslist, I couldn't help noticing that he corrected the spellings, but also noticed that even if he surgically implanted dr. compas in his ass, he couldn't play in compas. I'm sure he gets gigs all the time. I guess if I was in the business of trying to get those same gigs, it would annoy me a bit......but since I'm not it doesn't. I'm in the construction trade and we have some competitors who have no business being in the trade. No license, no insurance, and little knowledge or experience. Sometimes these guys get significant jobs-how a client could trust them to do the work I have no idea, but they do. Sometimes I get a bit annoyed at these guys, but they haven't stopped me from making a living. quote:
ORIGINAL: aarongreen I have to disagree with the regional label of "racket". That to me is assigning greed or any other unsavory trait in the human condition, to a specific group when we all know that it's universal.
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 4 2013 16:50:03
|
|
estebanana
Posts: 9373
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to aarongreen)
|
|
|
quote:
Taken to it's highest level you have to be deeply committed and put in the long hours. "Easiest" way to do that is to make it your life's work. I mean "easiest" in the sense of being able to dedicate the largest amount of your time and effort towards that goal. Well that is if you're an American brainwashed into the Calvinist work ethic that we are addicted to. In the classical music trades many of the best luthiers and bow makers also play music. This is kind of what I'm getting at, and maybe this is a "first world problem", but in a sense I think of Bouchet as a professional level maker even though he did not have to do to support himself (I'm sure the "extra" money was nothing to complain about!) In this country we are in a position where the men kill themselves working and die before the women die. I think we sacrifice quality of life over making a living and making money. Money is the Superstar here. I would say the highest level is it be a master at what you do and also have a personal life worth living, what ever that means to you. One can be a master at more than one thing or do two things at a very high level, case in point Bouchet's mastery of guitar making and his position as an art teacher. Or maybe a guy programs computers and likes taking photographs or a dancer gardens and writes books about gardening that get published. Or a cello maker is also a mystery novelist. We are all like Bouchet, too complex to spend our time doing just one thing. In America you have to fight against the mentality that we are one dimensional. Where does a guitar maker get the personal fuel and inspiration to go on? Maybe for some it is through the work of guitar making and for others it is through experiencing sonic pleasure in other ways. Or looking at some other type of art. We also don't all get better at things in the same way. One guy might need to grind away at the work bench 14 hours a day, but for another person learning and getting better may be more cerebral. At the root of my frustration is the idea that in America you have to sell, sell, sell and broker yourself. An this is where the racket comes in; Americans will say anything to sell anything, and now I see that in the guitar making world. In reality it is true you have to sell yourself and your work, but at the end of the day we need to step out of that in some way. Bouchet apparently did it by making guitars after a day of teaching drawing. In America the Bouchet model of wholeness of life is a type of thing that is not honored. The man is supposed to kill himself through single mindedly "doing the right thing" and pushing everything aside to sell- sell- sell. That may be what is for sale here, but I'm not in the market to buy that life. And no guitar maker, dancer, carpenter, waitress should have to. We can always make time for life.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 4 2013 20:57:02
|
|
Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to estebanana)
|
|
|
My first engineering job was for a tech startup that grew from $20-million per year sales to $200-million in two years. I worked for one of the founders, a sterling gentleman who became one of my best friends. He taught me how to live within the corporate beast with a degree of integrity. After ten years I was boss of a small group within the company. After fifteen years I was boss of a larger group. The company had largely turned to $hit, but we were somewhat sheltered by an honest product line manager. When I was later part of an employee owned company, one of the young guys said he thought maybe he should get some big company experience, but he had heard there could be a lot of office politics. I told him that when I worked for a big company, we didn't have office politics. We had office terrorism. At the big company, my employees would sometimes come to complain to me about the surrounding $hit storm. I would tell them, "Figure out what it would take to make you quit. Until they do that, don't worry about it." So, Stephen, what would it take to make you quit? What would it take to make you take a vacation? For a good while I traveled a great deal. I have over 2-millon miles on one of my frequent flyer cards. My playing suffered badly from lack of practice. So badly I tried to quit. Couldn't do it. Bought a flight case. Now the Ramirez 1a blanca has a million airline miles of its own. Time to walk on down the street and shoot a few photos of Wat Phra Singh in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Happy New Year to one and all. RNJ
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 5 2013 5:39:48
|
|
BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
|
|
|
quote:
Time to walk on down the street and shoot a few photos of Wat Phra Singh in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Glad to see you are in Chiang Mai, Richard. Chiang Mai is one of my favorite places, so different from Bangkok. I had the good fortune of pulling a four-month State Department consulting gig at the American Consulate General in Chiang Mai in 2006. It is an interesting 700-year old city, and I was always intrigued by the moat surrounding the central part. There are many interesting places in and around the city. For a sense of nostalgia for the old British expatriate life, You should go to the Chiang Mai Gymkhana Club for a drink. It is located on Lamphun Road. It is the oldest sports club in Thailand, founded in 1898 by the British Vice Consul and some British teak loggers. One of the founders was L.T. Leonowens, the son of Anna Leonowens, who was the real-life inspiration for the book and movie "Anna and the King of Siam." I became a member of the club during my sojourn in Chiang Mai, and always enjoyed a "sundowner" on the club's veranda in the evenings, facing a beautiful, huge rain tree on the grounds. I became a member to play squash, and I still have a couple of Chiang Mai Gymkhana Club shirts among my squash gear. Cheers, Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 5 2013 14:49:44
|
|
estebanana
Posts: 9373
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
|
|
|
Richard, I hope your gaggety camera is responding to all your commands. I would like to see your photos when you return. Thank you for pointing a question at me instead telling what I should do. I don't really have an answer. I tried turning the question inside out and asking what would it take to get me to keep on going, and I could not think through that one very well either. As for taking a vacation I cannot, I don't have the money to take time off. If I stop moving for five minutes the demand for money to feed the bills and rent would consume me and put me behind. In that respect I'm like most of the working poor in this country. I live hand to mouth and I make it up each day, I have little time or leisure to vacation. I'm going to dump everything I own, give my truck to one of the family members, stick a few boxes of tools on a slow boat, get on a plane, go to another country and start over. If it were not for Jason McGuire I would be living in the street, or under a freeway. He graciously let me stay in his recording studio for the winter, which is a palace compared the accommodations under the over pass. But that is the kind guy he is, besides being one of most interesting musicians I have ever known in any genre or form. Artists take care of each other and someday I'll return the commitment. ( he gets any guitar he wants) I'll never be a dealer and neither will Jason, we're dealing other issues, probably are both crazy. Our women think we are. I'll keep thinking about your question, so few questions stop me in my tracks.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 6 2013 1:08:55
|
|
Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
|
RE: Guitar making is becoming a racket. (in reply to estebanana)
|
|
|
When I would ask the same question of my employees, the main point was not to make them think. It was to encourage them to lay down a marker so they could stop thinking. It is indeed difficult to take a vacation from being poor. I was once poor, but I was much youger than you, so I had plenty of impulses to do dumb stuff. Getting my ass out of a variety of cracks distracted me from my financial situation. I would think that moving to Japan would provide plenty of useful distractions. Sounds like a plan. I really love the camera. The fountains in the Chiang Mai moat were making rainbows today. For dinner at the night market I had an excellent soup of coconut milk, shrimp, lemongrass, galangal and a variety of other twigs, roots and leaves, over a serving of steamed rice, accompanied by a watermelon smoothie. These Thais know how to live. Larisa had to go back to the USA to work, so I'm relying on the single traveller skills honed by decades of business travel. You meet some really interesting people. RNJ
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 6 2013 14:18:03
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.109375 secs.
|