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Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin of name?   You are logged in as Guest
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Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin of ... 

Anyone know how Moraíto got his name? Meaning "little purple (one)".

For those that might be interested in the Andalu' dialect, 'Morao' is a classic example of the absence of consonants and other letters to make a word shorter.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 17:34:14
 
Mordorito

 

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

I do not know how he got his name, but "moroa" for moron seems to be Portuguese influenced.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 17:40:19
 
Escribano

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Mordorito

quote:

I do not know how he got his name, but "moroa" for moron seems to be Portuguese influenced.


How do you figure it is moron? I read it as a compression of Moraíto. Are you saying it is because that he is from Morón de la Frontera? He was born in Jerez.

Andalu' can sound Portugese e.g. my favourite, refriao for resfriado

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 17:47:33
 
bursche

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

morado is a mark you get from a punch.
it is also used to say someone is stoned.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:03:32
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to bursche

quote:

morado is a mark you get from a punch.
it is also used to say someone is stoned.


Thanks. Like a bruise?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:04:32
 
bursche

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

exactly. I'd go for the second meaning. Maybe Morao was always so morao of taking whatever that they called him Morao. The expression "estar morado" instead of "colocado" is common especially in Andalucía.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:17:38
 
Mordorito

 

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

Oh, I thought it was pronounced Moron because I thought his sons nickname, Diego del Moroa, meant "of Moron". But I guess "del Moroa" means of the family Moroa. Is this right? I thought the "oa" in andalusia might have the same Portuguese pronunciation, since it so close to Portugal. In Portuguese, it is my understanding that "oa" has the "n" sound to it. As in Soa Poalo, which is pronounced somewhat like, Sahwn Poalo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:33:24
 
mezzo

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From: .fr

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

quote:

Anyone know how Moraíto got his name? Meaning "little purple (one)".

seems to me that morado is something related with the color of the skin. Maybe Manuel Morao Sr. or his father or uncle before him was called that way coz they were very very tanned.


there is also this tientos letra : "Mi cuerpecito lo tengo moraíto como un lirio, si dios me diera la muerte acababan mis martiritos."
So in this context, maybe it means I'm so livid (tired, hill) that I'm gonna died...(Lirio means lily, so white as lily?)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:39:54
 
Mordorito

 

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From: Delaware, USA

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Mordorito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mordorito

Oh, I thought it was pronounced Moron because I thought his sons nickname, Diego del Moroa, meant "of Moron". But I guess "del Moroa" means of the family Moroa. Is this right? I thought the "Ao" in andalusia might have the same Portuguese pronunciation, since it so close to Portugal. In Portuguese, it is my understanding that "Ao" has the "n" sound to it. As in Soa Poalo, which is pronounced somewhat like, Sahwn Poalo.


I had my a's and o's reversed. It is Sao Paulo...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:40:27
 
Mordorito

 

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

Is it possible that the family was originally from Moron de la Frontera (or surrounding area) and moron was spelled morao in Jerez back in the day? I am going for the long-shot....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:53:12
 
Escribano

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Mordorito

I'm sticking with 'morao' as a shortened 'morado' and then 'moraito' as the diminutive. But the origin would be well known in the Bar Arco de Santiago in Jerez . Estela (Zata), should know. Estela!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 18:59:04
 
Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

It doesn't help in this instance (I checked) but this is a pretty cool website for translating spanish to spanish, we use it at work when we get someone on the crew from another country who hasn't yet settled into the "LA Mexican standard" yet.
http://www.asihablamos.com/

Here's something though......
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro
Maybe he's descended from Moro's (moors) and it's diminutive of that?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 19:33:47
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Leñador

quote:

Maybe he's descended from Moro's (moors) and it's diminutive of that?


Yeah, but the diminutive of Moro would be Morito - according to my Mexican wife

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 20:14:51
 
Leñador

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

She's totally right....hmmmm, I'm gunna get to the bottom of this, it may take me a while but I'll be back with the answer! I'm thinking right now something to do with the word Moreno....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 20:23:44
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Leñador

Remember that Andalu' drops the d's, so 'morao' makes a lot of sense for 'morado' and the wife read that straight away from 'Moraíto'.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 20:35:13
 
Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

Yeah, central americans tend to do that too, I was going to ask come central americans I know...I'll have to go that avenue as well, purple must be some sort of calo slang for something...I'm off to spain next week, I'll ask around if I don't have it figured out by then.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 20:53:52
 
mark indigo

 

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Leñador

i thought morao meant purple, as in "morao y oro," - purple and gold

dunno why they all got that nickname though...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 21:35:52
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

i thought morao meant purple, as in "morao y oro," - purple and gold


Yes, morado means purple and morao is the Andalu' compression of it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2012 22:07:55
 
NormanKliman

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

Manuel Moreno Jiménez, the man who accompanied Terremoto padre, Paquera, María Vargas and La Perla on those recordings, inherited the artistic name of his father, who was a party (non-professional) singer. MMJ was called Moraíto for a period of his life during which his brother Juan was called "Moraíto chico". Later, the brothers were known as Manuel and Juan Morao. Juan's son, Manuel Moreno Junquera, was the Moraíto who accompanied Manuel Agujetas in that film.

"Moratón" is used more often than "morado" to refer to a dark patch on the skin, like a bruise. Morado as a color obviously comes from this context (or viceversa).

The expression "ponerse morado" means to have one's fill of something good, like a big meal or whatever.

quote:

Maybe Morao was always so morao of taking whatever that they called him Morao.


I doubt it, but maybe alcohol and certainly not drugs, which is what you're implying.

Years ago, somebody on this forum heard that Tomatito was referred to as "the half-kilo guitarist" and assumed that it referred to drugs, which was really stupid because kilo used to mean a million pesetas (obviously, then, he was getting paid half a million to perform).

I've pointed out before that the Real Academia Española has a great online dictionary:

http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=morado

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2012 7:07:10
 
mezzo

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From: .fr

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

"Moratón" is used more often than "morado" to refer to a dark patch on the skin, like a bruise. Morado as a color obviously comes from this context (or viceversa).

Norman do you think my analyse about "moraito como un lirio" letra (see my previous post) makes any sense?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2012 7:24:27
 
NormanKliman

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to mezzo

Hi mezzo,

Sure, but there are purple lilies, too. So the meaning isn't "livid" or "pale" but the opposite: dark because it's been bruised/battered/beaten.

A better translation of the letra you posted:

My body is so beaten up
if God took my life
it would put an end to my suffering

Not a nice thought for a Saturday morning, but there it is.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2012 8:21:32
 
mezzo

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From: .fr

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

Sure, but there are purple lilies, too. So the meaning isn't "livid" or "pale" but the opposite: dark because it's been bruised/battered/beaten.

thanks Norman.
Ok I get it. In my head lily was white coz of the 'fleur de lys' color of the french monarchy...


quote:

"Moratón" is used more often than "morado" to refer to a dark patch on the skin

Funny, I first thought about the letra "salgo de mi casa andando,..., me encuentro con Pedro el Morato" while typing my first replie yesterdfay

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2012 8:29:19
 
Ricardo

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

inherited the artistic name of his father, who was a party (non-professional) singer.


Whose name was, according to Rito book, Manuel de Soto Moreno. Morao, and was also a guitarist in addition to singer.
Manuel Moreno MMJ was moraito later Morao, as Norman stated.
his son MANUEL was also featured in Rito and they called HIM Moraito at the time too, but since he didn't go pro I guess his cousin MANUEL adapted the name.

Rest as norman stated Juan Bro was chico (Melchor de Marchena's brother, also guitarist, was called "Chico Melchor" which I thought was funny too) son MANUEL MORENO JUNQUERA (so many manuels) I first read about as "Moraito Chico". He is the famous beloved one, but later they just call him Morao too, like tio and abuelo. And now Diego DEL morao, I have already heard some jaleos refer to HIM simply as "Morao" too. So it goes with these recycled nick names.

In that documentary MMJ was interviewed and introduced each grandson/grandnephew in his clan, and notice he wore a puple pañuelo. I assumed at that moment that perhaps HIS father got the nick name from wearing such a thing or other purple clothing.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 9 2012 0:29:22
 
koenie17

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From: España

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Escribano

quote:

Anyone know how Moraíto got his name? Meaning "little purple (one)".


It´s a very gitano thing to give someone a additional name, like Tomatito or Camaron de la Isla. They asked El Carpeta(Farruquitos little brother) How he got his name, and he said it was because he always instantly remembered al the new moves people showed him. "La carpeta", means the file. He instandly filed his new moves .
So "el Morao" Can mean the purple one. But it probably has to do something with "Ponerse morao de ...." wich means exsesive drinking or eating, or really anything that´s way too much

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 9 2012 1:39:19
 
NormanKliman

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,

I've got some resources on Morao and was going to have a look for further information. I probably would have forgotten to check out Rito, so I'm glad you added that. But "de Soto Moreno" doesn't make sense because of the way last names are passed on: His father's last name would have to be Moreno something and his mother's last name would have to be Jiménez something. I'll see if I can find something.

quote:

So it goes with these recycled nick names.

Also at work in this case is the way that the diminutive (-ito) is often dropped toward the end of the career (Valderrama, Varea and others).

I heard or read somewhere that the son Manuel who you mentioned died young and that Moraíto picked up a lot from him.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 9 2012 6:29:04
 
mezzo

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From: .fr

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

In that documentary MMJ was interviewed and introduced each grandson/grandnephew in his clan, and notice he wore a puple pañuelo.

In the same doc, when Moraito accomp Jesus Mendez in the bar, he wears a purple watch (weird color for a watch I thought in the 1st place but now it make sense )

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 9 2012 8:52:35
 
srshea

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From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

...notice he wore a puple pañuelo...


Alright, don’t know if this only muddies the water further or adds more clarity, but I’m going through some Fontana reissues, and Morao and his brother are credited with a number of their various artistic names (I think these CD reissues use the original label credits verbatim.) One some, but not all of the CDs, Morao circa ‘57-’63 with Paquera, Terremoto, Vargas, etc. is credited as ‘Manuel Moreno Penella.’ So, maybe Penella is a corruption of panuelo, providing yet another nickname for this dude? The Penella name hasn’t been brought up on the Foro before so far as I can tell, (unless someone spelled it differently.)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 10 2012 16:11:41
 
Ricardo

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to mezzo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

Sure, but there are purple lilies, too. So the meaning isn't "livid" or "pale" but the opposite: dark because it's been bruised/battered/beaten.

thanks Norman.
Ok I get it. In my head lily was white coz of the 'fleur de lys' color of the french monarchy...



Ok, mezzo please tell me that NOW you understand the meaning of letra you are able to accompany it properly unlike before.


About "Panella"...odd, maybe mix up with Manuel fernandez Molina "Parrilla", at least for Paquera.

AT Norman, sorry for the typo as I ran out the door. The direct quote is strange from Rito Bio for Morao:
"HIjo del cantaor y guitarrista Manuel Moreno de Soto y Monje, hermano de Juan Morao..."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 10 2012 17:50:37
 
srshea

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From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

About "Panella"...odd, maybe mix up with Manuel fernandez Molina "Parrilla", at least for Paquera.

Oh, huh, well I knew Parrilla got a real early start at 12 or 13, but I figured that was just as a kid playing in tablaos. Would he have been recording with those top artists in the late fifties? Yikes.

I’m at work now so I can’t check the CDs again, but the Penella name was on three or four of them. I threw one on real quick when I made that earlier post, and what I heard sounded like Morao, but it also sounded just kinda generically Jerez for that time period, and maybe a bit with a lighter touch that I associate with Parrilla, rather than the freight-train heaviness of Morao.

Unless the mystery gets solved sooner, I’ll take a closer look at the CDs and see if I can definitely identify the tocaor.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 10 2012 19:00:24
 
srshea

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RE: Manuel Morao 'Moraíto' - origin... (in reply to srshea

Just double checked and 'Manuel Moreno Penella' is definitely Manuel Morao, 'Yo tengo un reloj de oro' with Maria Vargas in '63, 'Calle de San Francisco' with Paquera in '57, etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 10 2012 23:57:42
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