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KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

I liked the way Jason Mcguire summed it up on his website. He had that flashing text that first said, Guess what? Then it flashed over to, Flamenco is hard Funny and kind of profound.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 11:28:46
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Florian

quote:

and Doit .....well when u know him and know what to expect of him, his sense of humor...you wont be shocked when u uploading a solea audio for feedback and hes talking about his toaster, hes a great player with a very dark and offbeat sense of humor which i love (hes either weird or theres genius in his darkens lol...depends of what you wanna see when you look...but he is consistent)
I agree!!! I love Diot!! he is so damn awesome!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 12:46:49
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Florian

quote:

...there is no "gift from god",

does that include Sabicas and PDL??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 12:52:26
 
shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to kudo

I agree with Florian. Sabicas, Paco de Lucía, and all the great guitarists are well known to have spent many hours practicing every day. They're not naturally gifted nor granted a gift from God. They put in the time and effort to become that way. Recognizing that doesn't demean their abilities at all. Quite the opposite. It recognizes not only their abilities but the path they took to get their as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 14:29:11
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 840
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

This is very simplistic to say, "they all practice a lot". Ok perhaps gift from God
is bad phrase. However being biological creatures, we are NOT all the same.
It is known that interconnection in the brain for example is different from one
person to another (synapses). Clearly a science still underway, however what
makes a serial killer a serial killer? What makes a Michael Jordan what he is? A
lot ofthe right biological things that come together and wire them the way they
are. In effect Paco, etc. they got the brain synapses package installed at birth
that get's them the Flamenco Level X ability. Of course that's just the hardware
so they still need to practice to program in the "what to do when" part.

How many people in the entire world of humanity may have Flamenco Synapses
Package X installed but have never even held a guitar? Give them one and train them
and maybe Paco steps down and say - It's yours now Maestro.

Nobody who's working hard to learn this stuff wants to say, hmm maybe I
only got Flamenco Synapses Package III, but it's a fact that most people will
fall into that category.

You think Grisha just practices a lot ... Really? No f-ing way, he's got more
than practice in there.

The simple fact is that some of us, no matter how hard we practice, and how
much we diligently learn, will EVER get to that level. Because we do not have
the same CPU and Memory moduiles they have. You're kidding yourself if
you think proper practice, and enough of it can get you there.

That's not to say you cannot become a really good guitar player, or have a
great time at it. Just that 99% of us are not no matter what gonna become
the next Paco. Because we aren't built that way.

Does that discourage me? No, it doesn't, because I recognize that I can
become good within my own capacity. It's just a simple reality check that
No - I don't have Package Level X installed.

Plus another aspect of this is - Well we're playing music for entertainment.
Playing for your own enjoyment, and to entertain the people around you IS
actually enough in itself.

It's still hot here in Chicago, so there's my morning Rant. Plus I gotta go
do my daily 20 miles on the bike, fully realizing I don't have Tour De France
Package X installed either.

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 14:59:21
 
odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to shaun

Acknowledging their hard work is acknowledging their mastery even more I think.

If you say that someone like Paco has a "gift from God" it can be demeaning I think, because it does kind of disown the fact that they have spent a huge part of their life to gain that skill and that is a tremendous amount of hard work and dreadful repetitions and also a sacrifice.

I do call Sabicas and Paco de Lucia geniuses in composing, but composing can also be really dreaful work sometimes and is struggle.

I guess if they have any gift it would probably be patience, persistance and tenacity , all of wich comes from the person themselves and they deserve the full credit for it as well.

The greatest things about flamenco in my opinion is that it is hard, and hard things require dicipline so I myself have atleast become a slightly more diciplined individual, and not only on the guitar but in daily life, and even with other things like languages and I now know how to have a good time and relax and also how to appreciate things more.

Good luck clevblue!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 15:11:05
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11604
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Florian

quote:

u need to go a loooong way back in the forum archives to find anything relevant he might have said i think


When doit stayed at my place over christmas we both logged in as the other guy and wrote some stuff, but nobody noticed!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 15:45:58
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 840
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

Why?

quote:

When doit stayed at my place over christmas we both logged in as the other guy and wrote some stuff, but nobody noticed!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 16:12:53
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

quote:

I agree with Florian. Sabicas, Paco de Lucía, and all the great guitarists are well known to have spent many hours practicing every day. They're not naturally gifted nor granted a gift from God. They put in the time and effort to become that way. Recognizing that doesn't demean their abilities at all. Quite the opposite. It recognizes not only their abilities but the path they took to get their as well.


OLE', well said!!!

There is a great book called "Your Brain on Music"! I highly suggested it!

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 16:18:07
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

u need to go a loooong way back in the forum archives to find anything relevant he might have said i think


When doit stayed at my place over christmas we both logged in as the other guy and wrote some stuff, but nobody noticed!


There u see, it would be a waste of my time to contribute anymore knowledge. Whats the point if nobody wants. So,..don´t moan.. you want it like that.


quote:

u need to go a loooong way back in the forum archives to find anything relevant he might have said i think we even had a joke at the end of the millennium about it..."Top most memorable moments of the last millennium" thread..."Doit once said something relevant"


Thats actually very poor of the person who pulled that off. Being ignorant, closing eyes and ears and being proud of it. lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 16:44:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11604
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

Why?

quote:

When doit stayed at my place over christmas we both logged in as the other guy and wrote some stuff, but nobody noticed!



Oh sorry let me explain.

For FUN

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 17:17:35
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

Yeah.. so much negative vibration.. Time to loosen up a little bit and post a random funny monkey.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 17:23:38
 
Mark2

Posts: 1506
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

Barry Bonds was asked about the advantage steriods may have given players, implying that he of course was one of them. Barry said that yes, he did have a huge advantage over other players, the advantage was his dad, Bobby Bonds, a great pro baseball player. That makes a lot of sense to me. The advantage of a pro baseball player, teaching his son from the very beginning, showing him the correct techniques, teaching him things others may not learn until they get to the pros, if ever.

Same with PdL, his dad raised him to be a pro, surrounded him with professional flamencos, and gave him every opportunity he could to further that singular goal. Paco is a product of not only that very rare preparation and opportunity, but also his own determination and natural ability. All the elements coming together to produce the finest flamenco guitarist yet.

For people to think anyone can equal that sort of mastery if they work hard enough is not realistic IMO. Can anyone? No. Can some? Absolutely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

This is very simplistic to say, "they all practice a lot". Ok perhaps gift from God
is bad phrase. However being biological creatures, we are NOT all the same.
It is known that interconnection in the brain for example is different from one
person to another (synapses). Clearly a science still underway, however what
makes a serial killer a serial killer? What makes a Michael Jordan what he is? A
lot ofthe right biological things that come together and wire them the way they
are. In effect Paco, etc. they got the brain synapses package installed at birth
that get's them the Flamenco Level X ability. Of course that's just the hardware
so they still need to practice to program in the "what to do when" part.

How many people in the entire world of humanity may have Flamenco Synapses
Package X installed but have never even held a guitar? Give them one and train them
and maybe Paco steps down and say - It's yours now Maestro.

Nobody who's working hard to learn this stuff wants to say, hmm maybe I
only got Flamenco Synapses Package III, but it's a fact that most people will
fall into that category.

You think Grisha just practices a lot ... Really? No f-ing way, he's got more
than practice in there.

The simple fact is that some of us, no matter how hard we practice, and how
much we diligently learn, will EVER get to that level. Because we do not have
the same CPU and Memory moduiles they have. You're kidding yourself if
you think proper practice, and enough of it can get you there.

That's not to say you cannot become a really good guitar player, or have a
great time at it. Just that 99% of us are not no matter what gonna become
the next Paco. Because we aren't built that way.

Does that discourage me? No, it doesn't, because I recognize that I can
become good within my own capacity. It's just a simple reality check that
No - I don't have Package Level X installed.

Plus another aspect of this is - Well we're playing music for entertainment.
Playing for your own enjoyment, and to entertain the people around you IS
actually enough in itself.

It's still hot here in Chicago, so there's my morning Rant. Plus I gotta go
do my daily 20 miles on the bike, fully realizing I don't have Tour De France
Package X installed either.

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 17:27:00
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 840
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo

No worries I got it ... My kids do ridiculous stuff all the time as well. :)


quote:

Oh sorry let me explain.

For FUN
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 18:14:21
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11604
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

No worries I got it ... My kids do ridiculous stuff all the time as well. :)


quote:

Oh sorry let me explain.

For FUN


they must have inherited synapse package III from their old man, poor things.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 18:34:03
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 840
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

Geez, nobody ever told me I had the upgrade!

quote:

they must have inherited synapse package III from their old man, poor things.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 19:21:44

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

Yeah.. so much negative vibration.. Time to loosen up a little bit and post a random funny monkey.


Nothing better than a random funny monkey

Even just a plain random monkey is pretty awesome.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 19:47:05
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to ToddK

quote:

Nothing better than a random funny monkey

Even just a plain random monkey is pretty awesome.


Here's a wee picture to start off with.

He's laughing because he passed the Flamenco "exam", (unlike 99.9% of you guys.)



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 20:09:52

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

He's laughing because he passed the Flamenco "exam", (unlike 99.9% of you guys.)


Nice Ron, i literally laughed out loud at that ahaha. My wife asked me
what i was laughing at.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 20:31:44
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Mark2

quote:

This is very simplistic to say, "they all practice a lot". Ok perhaps gift from God
is bad phrase. However being biological creatures, we are NOT all the same.
It is known that interconnection in the brain for example is different from one
person to another (synapses). Clearly a science still underway, however what
makes a serial killer a serial killer? What makes a Michael Jordan what he is?


ok forgive me i am gonna be 100% blunt about my feelings on the subject because i been tip towing around it ..and dont take it personally, i dont wanna presume what you do or you dont...this is not aimed at you...but in general ...I actually i think this other way of looking at it or describe it, its a simplistic excuse one gives to himself for failure, its a convenient way of settling for mediocrity ...nicely dressed in " i am humble" or
"i am a realist" clothes...
"Oh hes just got a gift" " Oh il never get to that no matter how much i practice so i might as well take it easy"
its just a bul*lshit excuse for not trying hard enough or accepting failure

If i fail, when i fail at least i know exactly why i am failing and who is responsible i dont need to lie to myself .

what makes a serial killer a serial killer...perhaps circumstances ....chemical imbalance in the brain, childhood....each serial killer is different.... i dont know...or is it a gift from god ?


what makes Michael Jordan him ? perhaps he played more than anyone else as a kid...practiced a lot , looked at, practiced and perfected certain aspects of his game...i am sure he did sitt at home watching dvds and eating popcorn's all day cause he had "the gift"


what makes Paco de Lucia play like Paco de Lucia...his dad locked him in his room as a kid 10 hours a day to practice...so he practiced more than anyone else...its why his technique was unmatched

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 1:51:19
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

quote:

what makes Paco de Lucia play like Paco de Lucia...his dad locked him in his room as a kid 10 hours a day to practice...so he practiced more than anyone else...its why his technique was unmatched


I am just curious to know how anyone can practice 10 hours a day with concentrated practice??
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 1:59:10
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Kalo

quote:

I am just curious to know how anyone can practice 10 hours a day with concentrated practice??



well if i had to guess... he probably didn't all the time...still got distracted....with things, he was a kid...but probably still got more done than anyone else..

imagine...locked in a room, with just a guitar...absolutely nothing else to do....no internet or computer, no tv....
eventually ...u would just play guitar...its better than just staring at the walls...time goes quicker

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 2:03:17
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 840
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Florian

forgiven, and no hard feelings, but ... I completely disagree. :)


quote:

ok forgive me i am gonna be 100% blunt about my feelings on the subject ...and dont take it personally, i dont wanna presume what you do or you dont...this is not aimed at you...but in general ...I actually i think this other way its a simplistic excuse one gives to himself for failure, its a convenient way of settling for mediocrity ...nicely dressed in " i am humble" or
"i am a realist" clothes...
"Oh hes just got a gift" "il never get to that no matter how much i practice so i might as well take it easy"
its just a bul*lshit excuse for not trying hard enough or accepting failure

If i fail, when i fail at least i know exactly why i am failing and who is responsible i dont need to lie to myself .

what makes a serial killer a serial killer...perhaps circumstances ....chemical imbalance in the brain, childhood....each serial killer is different.... i dont know...or is it a gift from god ?


what makes Michael Jordan him ? perhaps he played more than anyone else as a kid...practiced a lot , looked at, practiced and perfected certain aspects of his game...i am sure he did sitt at home watching dvds and eating popcorn's all day cause he had "the gift"


what makes Paco de Lucia play like Paco de Lucia...his dad locked him in his room as a kid 10 hours a day to practice...so he practiced more than anyone else...its why his technique was unmatched

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 2:19:20
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Mark2

quote:

what makes Paco de Lucia play like Paco de Lucia...


Its a combination of hard and good practice and being naturally better at it than others. You can see that easily at things you need a long time to learn but others get it in a much shorter time. I think its a combination of your memory and physics. You can train it to a certain degree but everything beyond that is "luck" if you got that genetically inherited. You can call that gift but it has absolutely nothing to do with gods, spirits or such mystic things. The progeny of Paco will probably have similar abilities. But it could skip a generation or more or gets lost.

And some people are heavily gifted physically but only make **** out of it. Listen to Jeronimo. Excellent techniques...no sense for good music.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 10:20:21
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

And some people are heavily gifted physically but only make **** out of it. Listen to Jeronimo. Excellent techniques...no sense for good music.



that's not a fact its an opinion based on taste, personally Pacos music dosent hitt me as its 'sopossed' to...i respect what the guy has done and what he means to flamenco...but i never listen to his music...i find others that touches me way more jeronimo is in the middle of his career Paco is at the end..u comparing a lifetime of composition with a 1st album....

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 11:21:48
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

You cant take a guy that has played 12h a day during his childhood - and btw he did it out of necessity - and call it gift or biology or whatever. In fact there are players who can match him technically. But none of them can do it compositionally, which tells me that biology is the least interesting part of PdL's evolution, but more his inspirational creative mind to be able to get so far in compositioning so early i should add.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 12:24:02
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1762
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to XXX

there are guys with a lesser sense for music, perfect technique, they will surely be most appreciated by similar people...
by others, they will be appreciated for the technique, but not their compositions...
Paco is surely not the best anymore technique-wise, but he's the best all-rounder, who can say something new every time he decides to compose...today's "greats", including Jeronimo and co., they haven't done anything like that consistently...so only time will tell if anyone can live up to these heights...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 13:24:01
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

I am not a believer in genetically passed on talent (not for abstract non-survival skills like music anyway). But as someone said here earlier Paco was nurtured towards becoming the best from the very beginning. Growing up in the right environment, with the right people teaching and surrounding you + ridiculous and inhumane amounts of practice = success.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 15:15:30
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3041
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to KMMI77

I guess we are all open to composing from the moment we pick up an instrument and we start to close up ourselves to it the moment we start thinking that we need to learn something or do it like someone else does.

Almost everyone has little riffs, licks and compositions that they came up with when they knew little about music and guitar, they just wanted to do stuff with it without judgment based on "quality patterns".
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 15:37:51
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1762
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Munin

"Growing up in the right environment, with the right people teaching and surrounding you + ridiculous and inhumane amounts of practice = success."

of course that's true in most cases...but i think there's a huge gap between being successful and making a difference in one's field...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2012 15:40:41
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