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Neck angle before closing the box   You are logged in as Guest
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El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

Neck angle before closing the box 

I have spent hours trying to figure out the final neck angle before closing the box on my first build. 
My solera is ramped at about 4 mm now. The dome at the bridge is about 2 mm. I have measured other guitars I have and it seems this is about right for a low saddle. How much will the strings pull up on the top to effectively lower the saddle even more by lifting the top? 

I have to close this today! 

Troutie, what did you do?

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2012 12:14:37
 
Gimar

 

Posts: 39
Joined: May 13 2012
 

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

What helped me alot was making a fullscale drawing of the situation.
This helps you visualise the situation and adjust accordingly, keep in mind your fretboard thickness.

In a worst case scenario you can taper the fretboard in thickness to compensate for the neckangle. I had to do this on my first blanca.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2012 12:22:32
 
Gimar

 

Posts: 39
Joined: May 13 2012
 

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

oh 1 important thing I forgot to mention.
make sure to include the fretheight in your fullscale drawing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2012 13:05:01
 
Jeff Highland

 

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

I use a spreadsheet to work out neck angle.
You are welcome to a copy
I would expect that your 4mm forward set at the nut is excessive and you should be around 2mm
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2012 22:06:40
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

Yup what Jeff said

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2012 1:27:22
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

quote:

I would expect that your 4mm forward set at the nut is excessive and you should be around 2mm


I agree.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2012 6:53:10
 
El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to Sean

Have been checking and doing some measuring since I closed my box. Funny how much easier it is to do now. Lol!

It seems that on comparison to some of the other guitars I have, the saddle will end up at about 8mm.
My regular plug in gig guitar that i have played for some 25 years now is a 1983 Juan Alvarez with a Fishman blender system installed has a saddle at about 7mm. If I end up there, then it should feel natural to me. I do plan to play this guitar as my new full time gig guitar. - as long as there is some acceptable sound coming out of it.

I suppose I could always to some fingerboard fudging before I glue it down no?
How much lift should I expect stringing it up?

Thanks again!

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2012 12:52:54
 
Jeff Highland

 

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

Get a 650 long straight edge.
Put a 7mm block at the nut position and a 9.75mm block at the 12th fret position.
That will give you a direct measurement of saddle height at the bridge position (assuming 6mm fretboard, 1mm frets, and 2,75 average 12th fret action)
From this, you will lose about 0.5mm from your neck pulling up into relief and perhaps a bit more from body deformation in both the short and long term.
That is why you want to aim towards a highish saddle to start with.
When you end up with high action and a 6mm saddle height you are in trouble.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2012 21:42:42
 
El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to Jeff Highland

Jeff,

Thanks very much for that information! Sounds like the definitive way to calculate the saddle height. I may just go straight to my workshop after the gig I am playing right now to set his up and check it out. :)
The only thing I did this morning as I was practicing cutting binding channels was to lay the guitar down on its face and with the head veneer overhanging the bench and measured the gap under the 12 fret position. It measured 2mm for what that is worth... I guess I could do some math on my break and find out!

Thanks again Jeff!

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2012 23:04:21
 
El Polaco

 

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 10 2012 2:39:58
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2012 1:47:37
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

What i was taught and what I´ve done ever since is to put a piece of 6mm dumbwood on the neck only and hold a straight edge above it, meassure where the bridge should be. Ideal is around 1,5mm between straightedge and soundboard. The you adjust the final height with fingerboard thickness and evt. by shaving the fingerboard.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2012 7:32:30
 
El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Anders,

I set up a 6mm dummy fingerboard that I already made and measured below the straight edge at the bridge. It was 1.5mm! Looks like I will be ok after all!

What do you attach to your Dremel to do your binding/purfling stepped channels? I did some test freehand stepped channels with a sloping base on a trim router.
I didn't seem to have any trouble keeping it vertical by hand.
Am I asking for trouble?

Is the binding usually 2mm thick (the thickness of the sides) by about 5mm deep plus the shallower inner step the thickness of the purfling strips added together?

Attached router base pic.

Attachment (1)

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2012 23:21:39
 
Jeff Highland

 

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to El Polaco

That's great on the neck angle.Anders method and what I proposed basically get to the same end result.
I would not like to use that trimmer base as is for binding. Some peple use an adjustable slope on the base to match to the back and top slope but yours looks too extreme. If you are intending to keep it vertical from the side contact you will need a second bearing further down
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 11 2012 5:08:34
 
El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: Neck angle before closing the box (in reply to Jeff Highland

Jeff,
Thanks for the warning. I suppose I'll have to make something today to track lower on the sides to make sure the router stays vertical. I should just go ahead and make the Bogdanovich jig thatTroutie used. I was being lazy when I realized that the router I got recently came that trim attachment and thought I could get away with it. Worked good on the tests but the guitar is a more serious endeavor. Because of the nervousness associated with actually cutting the top or back, there is much more likelihood of me messing something up.

Just a note. I don't know if I could ever have started this project if I hadn't found this forum. I hadn't really intended on starting to build really but the lutherie posts really inspired me and the bug got a hold of me!

Thank you everybody!

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 11 2012 11:37:25
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