Africa

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Africa

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Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

Africa

I've spent most of the day watching the live aid shows from all over the
world, ok it's not flamenco but here in Southern Spain we can see Africa
from the mountains on a clear day. So close yet so different. So this is
just a reminder to everyone that this time Live Aid are not asking for
money, they need support, so if you agree with the cause please sign the
petition and be heard at the G8 summit. It only takes three seconds, and in
Africa every three seconds a child dies from hunger or lack of medicine.

www.live8live.com

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 16:31:54

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Kate)

Hi Kate,
Like you, I've been watching Live-8 since it started at 4.15pm this afternoon.
I've never been a great Rock band freak, but it's great to see all these current and Classic bands get up there and give it all they have...in what must be a really nerve racking experience, considering the size of the crowd!!
Meanwhile my daughter, is watching videos of repeated episodes from "Friends" and my wife is mowing the lawn and generally sorting stuff out in the garden.
When I ask them why do they want to miss this... I'm told that I should be interested in what pleases me and not dictate to them what they want to do/watch.
I don't get it?....but I guess that's just families. LOL!
For me... I reckon our own home-grown Annie Lennox (born and raised just up the road from here BTW) did a fantastic set!
The Who will be on soon...so I'm signing off now!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 19:55:53

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

Oh, I would have loved to see Annie Lennox. Is she from Newtonhill? (Sexy thing she is) Maybe I should watch some more telly

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 20:22:36

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Africa (in reply to Guest)

No, Annie was born about 6 miles up the road from here.
I must admit, she has grown from a sexy young woman into a substantial person, who in my opinion blew all of them away.
Joni Mitchell is another person I can think of who went from being from being a fun chart topper to a major human being. (Not that it wasn't always there in the first place!)

The Who were OK, but barely a shadow of their disreputable past, looking like they needed oxygen tents after the performance (I hope I die before I get old?

)
Still, nice to hear them play again, and especially give up their time for free for a good cause.

Off to see Mc Cartney now....!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 22:23:41

Escribano

Posts: 6418
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Africa (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Joni Mitchell is another person I can think of who went from being from being a fun chart topper to a major human being

Yep, Hejira has to be one of the finest albums in recording history IMHO. Annie's "Who's That Girl?" live in Central Park, is a stonking performance.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 8:14:47

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Africa (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

The Who were OK, but barely a shadow of their disreputable past, looking like they needed oxygen tents after the performance (I hope I die before I get old? )

Ron your a hard man. The fact they they are still here is a surprise to me

. But for me "Magic Bus" Live at Leeds will live forever. I remember missing the last bus home due to just one more snog and then the 5 miles walk singing "Pictures of Lilly"

How us men suffer for woman

And what about Robbie - an entertainer

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 8:30:53

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

I actually saw the Who, and found that they did very well. Pete Townsend still move around the stage like a 17 years old wannabe. This I like.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 8:50:06

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Ron.M)

Hi Ron,

I missed Annie Lennox

and sadly Bjork as well. Two of my favourite female performers. I saw Annie Lennox at the very first Eurythmics gig in London, years ago.

We were watching on one of the Arabic channels NBC2 here which suffered from too many adverts which would just cut in during the set. Later in the evening we switched to a Spanish channel TVE which suffered from the presenters who talked nearly all the way through as if it were a celebrity gossip show. For instance during Robbie Williams they had a ridiculous conversation about his affair with Gerri Halliwell. This from one of Spain's top 'rock critics' aparantly who annoyed me immensely by saying that he didn't understand the point of it all as we everyone knows Africa is poor.

Highlights for me..... Robbie Williams, what a star. I thought the Who were great but the best surprise of the evening was ' Pink Floyd'. There was a girl in the crowd with a baaner that read " Pink Flloyd reunion. Pigs have flown".

The oldies certainly knocked spots of the middle aged ones like Duran Duran with Simon le Bon singing ' Wild Boys'. The worst moments were when young artists shared the stage with the veterans. Rob somebody with Stevie Wonder for instance. How could anyone think they could share a stage with him and sing one of Stevies songs in a Stevie style and pull it off. Not as bad however as the appalling version of Children of the Revolution with the Babycham singer and Elton John.

I'm not a great Paul Mcartney fan, and I did not like his choice of songs, ending up with the durge like everybody sing a long ' Hey Jude' but the version of Seargant Peppers with Bono was rocking.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 9:47:31

Escribano

Posts: 6418
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Later in the evening we switched to a Spanish channel TVE which suffered from the presenters who talked nearly all the way through as if it were a celebrity gossip show

I had a similar experience with recent coverage of some kind of event (my Spanish is not good enough to tell which) on the radio here (Granada Canal Sur). They introduced the next act "Tomatito!" and it sounded like Carmen Linares on cante. Excellent, I settle back to enjoy.

Then they talked all over the perfomance. There were 4 anchors! All contradicting each other and talking about flamenco, when some it's greatest exponents were demonstrating the art - live in front of them. Sadly their mikes were way higher in the broadcast mix. "Shut Up!" I was shouting. Doh!

quote:

from the BBC News - Taking to the stage Madonna asked the crowd: "Are you ready to start a revolution? Are you ready to change history? I said, are you ready?"

Oh dear

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 9:53:57

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

quote:

from the BBC News - Taking to the stage Madonna asked the crowd: "Are you ready to start a revolution? Are you ready to change history? I said, are you ready?"

Oh dear

Well I missed that. Where was she ? In Hyde Park ? Not sure a rock concert constitutes a revolution. Weren't we just excercising our democratic right to protest ( peacefully yet loudly and visibly en masse) at the decisions of our leaders ? It was a great event but it wasn't Tiannemen Square

Kate

_____________________________

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 10:05:50

Escribano

Posts: 6418
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Where was she ?

In Philadelphia, I guess.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 10:07:19

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

She was in Hyde park but thats just Madonna

I did note however that she seriously rehearsed her spot - many others didn't take it that seriously. I thought worse for Madonna was when the BBC presenter inferred LiveAid had launched her career to her face - even if true in pretty bad taste

.

But at the end of the day it is the ???? millions expressing there support and not the few on the stage that count. Many of the millions probably vote but I doubt many artists are even in the right country at the right time - even if they wanted to. (except Bob of course

). Love him to bits - even his "I don't like Mondays"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 10:28:41

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

Just went to the shop in the middle of the village and saw a circle of people (poss 150 – it’s a small village), hand in hand, around the church, in the name of Live 8. I suggested to a villager that no matter how tightly they squeezed hands and prayed they would never get it to lift off the ground. He suggested I should join in but I have no time for religions of any flavour (just stating my view, I’m tolerant so I leave others to their views, but it is relevant here) How was this futile pursuit going to feed Africa, or improve their lot? Then while thinking what if anything practical could be done, remembering the explorer Ridgeway who said he had seen no problem on earth that couldn’t be resolved by halving the population, thinking that soon there will be no lions or leopards in the wild, and the RCs breeding policy, and ….. I thought about Flamenco – back on track – the issues in flamenco seem to relate to life, today, the planet, the soil, the crop, the pain, ….. Things personal. Things of this life and not some magical afterlife. Am I right or is my view of Flamenco too limited? Have I hit why I can relate to Flamenco?

Meanwhile the church has not moved anymore than it had done in the last 9 centuries But seriously does flamenco lack spiritualism beyond that of its’ own soul?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 12:18:46

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Kate)

quote:

everyone knows Africa is poor

Kate;

Forgive the following but it is just me and the moment speaking.

Excuse me if I seem cruel or cold but this is just my opinion about the concert for Africa.

When all is said and done Africa will still be poor and little or nothing will have changed for its people.

When mankind learns about the importance of helping others and not killing each other then we will see progress within civilization.

There have been several attempts to “save Africa” from disease, famine, and from it’s self. These attempts last for a few hours and then every well-meaning person goes home and gets on with his/her own life. Just wait for the next rock concert to raise money to save Africa. In the mean time everything must be all right for little will be done during musical interludes.

These concerts may be entertaining and give some the feeling that Africans are being helped. We shall see!

This topic could easily become a huge book. There are no long lasting answers to any question and our life upon this earth is all too limited.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 14:33:10

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Ron you are absolutely right about Africa but this was not simply about helping a poor continent but about raising political awareness, about telling our leaders that we are not satisifed with what they are doing. 20 years ago a load of money was raised but it was only a band aid and did nothing to solve the longterm problem. This was about addressing the root of it, the political problem by telling our leaders we know that there are solutions and we expect them to be implemented. Drugs should be made available and affordable. Water should be for the people and not crops to feed the western world. This was not a charity, raising money for poor Africa but a protest that we are not doing all we can and all we should.

I remember back when we protested against apartheid, and we boycotted South African produce. We were told this was making things worse for them, and was ineffective, by our leader at the time, she was wrong and when it was all over we were thanked by black south africans for caring, for making a difference, for taking a stand against something we found unacceptable. Big changes are possible, even though politicians dont think so, because they cannot see beyond their own fragile poitical careers and agendas.

I dont know how many people signed the petition in the end, and haven't been able to find it in any of the sunday online papers either which seemed strange as that was what the concerts were all about.

As a protest and conciousness raising exercise what more can we do. This is better than the anti globalisation protests that end in riots and with protestors being labeled anarchists and trouble makers with no idea of reality. This was a civilised and commercially viable protest. I do not think it's purpose was to help Africa in any way other than highlighting how little we are helping Africa and how little needs to be done to start making a difference and its not money nor music so much as politics that will make the difference.

I for one was heartened by the collective efforts of Bob Geldof, the music community and the massive response from music fans to take a political stance, even if some were there just for the free entertainment.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 15:11:36

Guest

RE: Africa (and non-musical families!) (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Well, Thomas, It's still better than doing nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 15:25:33

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

Africa is not poor. I think this is the problem that people do not understand. It is a continent very rich in many things including culture, resources and ability. This is why the solution is not simple. Many of the protesters (probably the wrong label) think 8 guys get together in a room and a few decisions later all is resolved. It is not in their power. At best they can start a process and I hope they do so. But I hope the weekend protesters do not have too higher expectations.

As for "These attempts last for a few hours" I think attempts is the wrong word. They are an expression of dreams for the well being of the protester. Ask them if they will accept a tax rise to pay for it - and then we see where we stand. Free tickets for a concert are one thing - hands in pockets are something else

.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 15:38:33

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

Sorry Anders overplapped your post. Yeah your right it is better than nothing. But there will be a cost so lets get real and pay the price. Most of the best things in life are free so it will not hurt that much

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 15:42:25

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Many of the protesters (probably the wrong label) think 8 guys get together in a room and a few decisions later all is resolved. It is not in their power.

Sorry to disagree but they do have the power, surely we gave them that when we voted them to be our leaders. You make it sound as if we are all very naive for thinking they can do something other than wash their hands of a difficult situation and deny any blame in creating it in the first place. If the power is not in their hands then why have a meeting to discuss these issues, and agree on world policies. They have the power to loan money and to demand, or not, debt repayment. They can order drug companies to lower their prices in Africa or face bigger taxes for example. They can agree to cooperate. They were quick enough to get the money together and agree over war in Iraq. Governments dont just follow policies they implement them. And there is no reason that the man in the street should pay ( that's a political excuse of an argument to terrify the poor tax payer) when large companies are making fortunes in Africa which is , as you say, rich in many ways, just the local people who remain poor and sick.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 16:34:53

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

quote:

the local people who remain poor and sick

Kate;

On the one hand you have people that care to resolve the problems in Africa. On the other you have those who can solve problems turn his/her backs on the isues.

A serious problem with Africa is that it was occupied by Europeans who had no concern for tribal differences and hatreds. As long as the Europeans were there Africa saw some semblance of peace through subjection.

Europeans drew up the boundaries of African countries with no concern for the people involved. Boundaries are a great way to define something that perhaps not everyone agrees to.

We see Africans killing each other simply because they are from a different tribe. Europeans and Americans drew up the boundaries of countries throughout the world after the first and second world wars, which created problems of its own.

The people in power will do whatever it takes to get reelected. Governments solving problems does not seem to be something of interest from a historical/political point of view.

The media will decide what is important to the public. We are led like a sheep to slaughter. Twenty years ago the media discussed three wars that were going on in the world. Upon researching this subject in some detail there were in fact 58 countries at war at that time. The other 55 were not important to the media.

How many people throughout the world need help to survive? Who do we care to help? Why whatever the media directs us to. Governments are about power and greed. People are important to governments only to pay taxes and vote the politicians into office, for those of us fortunate to be a part of the western world.

We have social workers who are called “bleeding hearts”. They are advocates for the poor. Many people do not care about others or even his/her own family. Thank God we have the luxury to concern ourselves with the welfare of others when too often we cannot help those around us or even ourselves.

Personally I donate through Catholic Charities to help those in depressed nations throughout the world. I am assured that about 98% of the monies collected go for the intended purpose. The other thing I do is to pray for the people of the world.

Now if I were Emperor, I would do things correctly! First help the people to help themselves. I would last about two seconds until some pretender to the thrown would assassinate me for the glory of doing things his way - back to power and greed.

I am glad it is Sunday – a day of rest. Tomorrow we celebrate our Independence Day, which is many things to many people. There is no perfect system if man is involved. We can only hope for a better life for everyone.

By the way after I finished electronics engineering school I returned to college to obtain advanced degrees in history and political science. I am very passionate about the humanities. Now why did I go into electronics and then programming? To pay the bills!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 17:24:57

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

Kate,
That was Tom's post, not mine.....but I have to agree with Tom here.
It's a massively difficult situation... absolutely massive.
I'm afraid I too am cynical about the outcome of Live-8.
The G8 leaders, will take note and like all professional politicians, will make a well thought out gesture to appease the protestors, but will not significantly change their World view IMO.
Trade with China will be much higher on the agenda I reckon.

Throwing money at African countries will not solve anything just on it's own.
Give Zimbabwe or Sudan a heap of money and just watch what it gets spent on.
Investment would have to be coupled with regime change...and that is illegal under International law.
Close management of the money or debt relief would be incredibly complex, requiring a sort of "shadow" Government for each of those countries based in New York or London or Paris etc.
It's depressing I know, but these G8 leaders can hardly deal with running their own countries, even worse when trying to reach agreement on Europe....they are hardly likely to be able to change a whole continent from the ground up.

Really, at the moment, the Aid Agencies are the only folk who can slip under the net and provide help to individuals using their own financial resources and maintain a low enough profile, not to irritate the respective so called Governments too much.

Sure, there are a lot of small things that could be done here and there as you suggest, like medicine and uncontaminated water etc, but hand the money to central government and these things won't get done IMO.

Sorry to be a downer Kate, I wish I didn't feel so negative about it.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 17:24:57

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Sorry to disagree but they do have the power, surely we gave them

Kate in reality we do not disagree on principal - only method.

As for the power I think they (G8) have the selfish mandate we as voters gave them "Do what is best for the eight most richest countries in the world - oh and by the way if you can fix up Africa without damaging jobs or increasing taxes please do so".

I wasn't talking naive, I was talking selfish. At the last election here you heard people interviewed saying they would decide how to vote based on which party would leave them best off. I heard the same interviews in the US before the election there. And a key issue for the French voting EU Non was to protect jobs.

By the way thanks for dropping the US into the Africa straight-line carve up that split tribal lands but I think the Brits (and to a lesser degree the French) are responsible for that thoughtless disaster (if my history serves me well). Sometimes being proud being English is tough but I guess that applies wherever you come from

.

But forward and onward. Whatever your method keep up the fight.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 18:34:52

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

quote:

They were quick enough to get the money together and agree over war in Iraq.

Yeah Kate...but that's life.
Who is gonna take the US to task and enforce it with military action?
Or China for that matter of fact?
If you're driving a 500cc Seat, you don't argue with a 40 Tonne wagon that just cut you up.
That's just the way it is IMO.

cheers (& tears)

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 20:57:00

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to flyeogh)

Or, as the African chief proudly proclaimed, when informed his nation was now a member of the British Empire : "This Queen Victoria is a very good man!"

Jim Morris.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 9:08:31

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Happy Independence day Tom, and all the North Americans on the forum.

Kate

_____________________________

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 10:51:51

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyeogh

By the way thanks for dropping the US into the Africa straight-line carve up that split tribal lands but I think the Brits (and to a lesser degree the French) are responsible for that thoughtless disaster (if my history serves me well). Sometimes being proud being English is tough but I guess that applies wherever you come from .

Sorry did not realise I had. The Europeans ( Brits, French, Belgiums, Dutch) may have carved up Africa but everyone was guilty of exploiting Africans ( including the Africans themselves) as slaves. Now its the big companies that exploit the situation, tobacco, drugs, diamonds, food companies. Macdonalds to name just one company that creates a massive imbalance in food cultivation.

Of course I agree with you, we are all selfish. Self interest is a great survival technique. Perhaps at some point we will selfishly start putting things right so that our children's children can inherit a place worth living in.

Kate

_____________________________

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 11:19:10

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

Just went to the shop in the middle of the village and saw a circle of people (poss 150 – it’s a small village), hand in hand, around the church, in the name of Live 8. I suggested to a villager that no matter how tightly they squeezed hands and prayed they would never get it to lift off the ground.

Hello guest, I laughed out loud at his post, particularly as there are some members of my family I could imagine doing just this. I'm reading a wonderful book at the moment " The Poisonwood Bible" about American missionaries in the Belgium Conga at the time of independance. In the same way as your post it is funny yet tragic.

To return to flamenco, there are American missionaries here who are converting Gypsies and instructing them to give up flamenco as if it were some pagan ritual that offends God. I find flamenco very spiritual, pain and redemption, suffering and love. There are an abundance of religious letras as well.

I learnt a fandango which went something along these lines " Me ma're iba a morir, porque se puso muy enferma, todos los dias me fui a la iglesia, para suplicar a Jesus que mi ma're no se muere" . During a rehearsal a young boy was singing this and the other singers were shouting out jaleos, which seemed almost contrary to the song, being so happy and exuberent. I fell about laughing when at the end of the first line over the pained voice of the singer mourning his mother's illness came a jubilant jaleo "Viva tu ma're" They had no idea why I found it so funny but I did, the irony of juxtaposition I suppose.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 11:34:13

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Happy Independence day Tom, and all the North Americans on the forum.

Thank you very much Kate. I appreciate that.

I have a cousin who was the first activist Catholic Priest in the United States. His name was Father Peter Yorke. He fought for the poor and members of labor in the San Francisco Bay Area. We had a reunion on Palm Sunday, 80 years after Father Yorke had passed away. Over 50 cousins met for the first time from England, Ireland, Canada, New Zealand and the United States.

I mention this family connection as doing a bit of research we turned up another cousin we are related to. This was John MacBride.

http://www.four-courts-press.ie/cgi/bookshow.cgi?file=boerwar.xml

An Irish author had described the actions of John MacBride in Africa with a great sense of humor. MacBride fought in the Anglo-Boer war and you can imagine on which side. When he returned to Ireland he fought during the Easter uprising of 1916 and the British put him before a firing squad for his efforts. His son Sean MacBride was cofounder of Amnesty International and won the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.pittsburghirish.org/AOHDiv32/seanmacbride.htm

It is possible for one man to do something worthwhile to help others. However, it is much like the story of the little boy who stuck his finger in the leaking dam to prevent a massive flood! Soon you run out of fingers to plug up the holes and there are leaks appearing everywhere! Worst of all is that you soon forget why your fingers are plugging up the holes in the dam and go off to do something else that live seems to require.

_____________________________

Tom
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 12:56:24

Guest

RE: Africa (in reply to Kate)

quote:

To return to flamenco, there are American missionaries here who are converting Gypsies and instructing them to give up flamenco as if it were some pagan ritual that offends God. I find flamenco very spiritual, pain and redemption, suffering and love. There are an abundance of religious letras as well.

I once had a girlfriend who had been a missionary nun in Africa. She taught me (almost) all I know about oral sex. Apparently, "real" sex is a mortal sin, but the male missionaries have this problem.......

People are all the same: problems arise when they come together in groups or nations. Self interest is all.

The Farruquito trial here is a good example: his mother appeared on TV to say that her son should be pardoned, because he has suffered already and gitanos suffer more than payos.

I imagine that the widow of his victim has another opinion.

Truth really does not exist: all depends on your point of view.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 13:49:02

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Africa (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

The Farruquito trial here is a good example: his mother appeared on TV to say that her son should be pardoned, because he has suffered already and gitanos suffer more than payos.

Oh dear, that smacks of total desperation, and cant possibly help in any way. Seems like every time the family speaks they make matters worse. Surely anyway the guilty verdict is a given and its just a question of how long he gets. I hope he can take his punishment with the same dignity he dances.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2005 14:43:06