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Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appears on Carlos Saura Films?   You are logged in as Guest
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athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appears on... 
Does anyone of you know the reasons for that? I mean, he's one of the most well-known flamencoartists and i think he did quite a lot for modern flamenco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2012 19:25:08
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
HE IS TOO SEXY TO BE ON THERE
but thats a good point and observation

PS. you are not a woman are you? I know flamencas who melt over him

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2012 19:34:20
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
no i'm a man from germany ;)
But i really love his playing, and his first album "de mi corazón al aire" shows what a genius he is.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2012 19:42:17
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
quote:

Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appears on Carlos Saura Films?  


Because he makes dance and singing movies. He know **** about music. Look at flamenco flamenco, the mouth of diego amador and even the hands of diego de morao are doing different things obviously than what u hear at some points. He also ****ed up other artists. It´s horrible to watch. saura is such an **** and music disrespecting noob. I hate him!! :((((

Flamenco flamenco gets 3 out of 10 from me. Very bad. All he acomplished are fancy drawings in the background and slime cheesy casanova visages. And a warmup of several tunes of the first movie "flamenco". Which was waaaay better.
We should face it.. Saura ****ed it up. He had a lucky first one..and this one is just like "Jaws 10.0003090". Booooooh!! :(((

Sorry for being so negative guys. There are some nice parts in the movie as well...but..overall..I can´t enjoy it. I love the flaseta swap shop much more!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 0:41:30
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jof

Does anyone of you know the reasons for that? I mean, he's one of the most well-known flamencoartists and i think he did quite a lot for modern flamenco.


You make it sound like Saura makes flamenco movies all the time...but he only made two so far (at least as far as pure artist performances go). Vicente was probably still too young/unknown back in 1990 for the first one, and for Flamenco Flamenco, who knows. Maybe he was touring or whatever.

And Doit, I think Ricardo explained very well in another thread a while ago how hard it is to do sound for films...especially in flamenco where nobody ever does the same thing twice in exactly the same fashion. And then, even harder if you do such sophisticated choreography like Saura...sure some geeks like us will pick up on the flaws but to say it's "horrible to watch" is just hyperbole if you ask me. The overall aesthetics of the film are a bit too kitschy, I agree with that though. But Saura is a great director.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 0:59:14
 
Mark2

Posts: 1882
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Munin) 
I think he did more than two. Check out "sevillanas"
quote:

ORIGINAL: Munin

quote:

ORIGINAL: jof

Does anyone of you know the reasons for that? I mean, he's one of the most well-known flamencoartists and i think he did quite a lot for modern flamenco.


You make it sound like Saura makes flamenco movies all the time...but he only made two so far (at least as far as pure artist performances go). Vicente was probably still too young/unknown back in 1990 for the first one, and for Flamenco Flamenco, who knows. Maybe he was touring or whatever.

And Doit, I think Ricardo explained very well in another thread a while ago how hard it is to do sound for films...especially in flamenco where nobody ever does the same thing twice in exactly the same fashion. And then, even harder if you do such sophisticated choreography like Saura...sure some geeks like us will pick up on the flaws but to say it's "horrible to watch" is just hyperbole if you ask me. The overall aesthetics of the film are a bit too kitschy, I agree with that though. But Saura is a great director.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 1:06:38
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
For a pure flamenco movie all you need is a cellphone-cam. Who needs studio sound? They shout like **** anyway. ;P hehe Don´t tell me they come even close to the quality of Alicia Keys!! NO WAY DUDE! Flamenco is rough. You get the voice with wiskey and not with proper voice-education. Anyway, for this budget they should work the sync out perfectly. Coz thats actually what the movie is all about.
I don´t wanna see other movies by saura. He is on my blacklist forever. Such an amateur.

Now just nod your head coz I´m right! :P

EDIT: Sevillanas sucks too! HA! Well after 2 movies he should have learned how to sync picture and sound. Or he got cheap mexicans who did the cutting job.. maybe they were out of fajitas and pissed..so they put in these glitches.. who knows? I would understand that. Fajitas are so awesome! =)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 1:06:56
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

Look at flamenco flamenco, the mouth of diego amador and even the hands of diego de morao are doing different things obviously than what u hear at some points.


i wondering how they basically got cd quality audio without having any mics in sight. so they must have pre-recorded some of that stuff.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 1:17:41
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
They sold CDs of the first part. The flasetas slightly differed from the movie. But, in the movie they were in sync. They just did a sloppy job for the 2nd part.

Do you see microphones hanging in movie scenes of Hollywood films?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 1:25:36
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

Do you see microphones hanging in movie scenes of Hollywood films?


what i mean is that a mic far away sounds different from the ones they put within 3 feet of a guitar to record for a cd. and in the movie, it sounds like cd quality.

also look at the surrounding. i just dont think it's possible to get that quality without pre-recording in a studio setting.

for instance, tomatito's part. how did they get that separation between all the instruments?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 2:26:41
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
Who knows. At least they should know what they are doing. But they don´t as it looks like. ;P They could have done it like in the first movie. They could just simply show one of these Casanova faces when the fingers are out of sync...but they didn´t pay enough attention to the stuff they were working on. Sooo sloppy! I tell ya man... they have cut the fajitas! That´s the reason. ^^
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 3:17:33
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
u know it might just be a logistical reason vicente wasn't in it, maybe he was busy ..or maybe it was a question of fee asked
there's alot of things that could be...not necessarily that Saura is snubbing vicente...might even be the other way around, he might have asked and Vicente didn't want to do it, unless u got inside information its hard to draw an accurate conclusion...Kate is in that world...she might have heard something, sure many would have asked the same thing


quote:

I don´t wanna see other movies by saura. He is on my blacklist forever. Such an amateur.



hahahah you so funny ..i think your a little too harsh on him...dont get me wrong...there were bits i liked and bits i didn't in flamenco flamenco too but....i have nothing but respect and affection for the man





as far as movie directors i dont think anyone else ever dedicated this much to flamenco saura has done mostly flamenco or flamenco related movies , he did more than 2

off the top of my head, flamenco, sevillanas, flamenco flamenco, iberia, salome and i am sure there's more

while the movies might not be to every flamenco taste or everything in it not the way you would have done it ( 5 different people would have done it 5 different ways) i think you have to recognize that it has helped making flamenco international and showed a pretty nice side of it to the general public, while vicente is not in it, everyone in flamenco flamenco is pretty much at the top of their game and did pretty brilliant stuff....i have seen much much worst portrayals of flamenco ...and no one has dedicated as much of themselves to exposing it to the world...sure through his eyes, and he might not be a flamenco but he is a movie director and still...he should be celebrated not badmouthed IMO...any idea what kind of respect and money it would take to get a cast like that all in the same movie ? its almost impossible for anyone else

even if the audio is not in perfect sync with video in places yeah studio quality is very very important, a huge part of the appeal of flamenco is the brilliance of the flamenco guitar, the beautiful crisp sound....most people aren't guitarists trying to transcribe falsetas from the video...and i am sure they appreciate the quality of the beautiful inspiring sound more then the perfect sink with the video ( they wouldn't even know or care about) and might switch the video off in a sec is it sounds like it was recorded in a garage....its not a secret we love beautiful crisp studio recorded sound ( well most of us)

i appreciate his dedication to flamenco, it would be a lot easier as a movie director to join the mainstream and make to crappy studio blockbuster crap, or a mainstream movie that appeals to the masses and makes more money with but hes sticking to showing art and in particular flamenco....man deserves a statue and a lifetime award achievement from flamenco....him and gatlif are the only 2 big directors i know that dedicate this much to art and exposing it

when i started flamenco the first carlos saura flamenco was like my bible...there wasn't anything better quantity and quality of stars that i could show to a non flamenco and they would think " wow that's beautiful"..IMO

the fault and virtue of Saura is that hes not a flamenco so he sees things unaffected ...kind of like an outsider who might see things that an outsider might and like ...its a great way to show to unaffected public...hence the majority of the public.....we see falsetas wed like to copy, picado, remates, great choreography an outside might see a story or an art, something that transports them somewhere..the ultimate function of an art is to convey a story

i have written a lot more then i intended too and it might appear that i am really offended or upset about what you said but i am not...at all...just like reading my own wisdom

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 5:37:46
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Florian) 
quote:


off the top of my head, flamenco, sevillanas, flamenco flamenco, iberia, salome and i am sure there's more


Don't forget blood wedding, I think he did carmen as well?



Doit,

You could learn the dance move that starts at the beginning. It looks like horse riding. You could practice it and start a new dance moves swap shop thread. And maybe even ride a broom handle when you upload your video

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 5:54:56
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to KMMI77) 
quote:


Don't forget blood wedding, I think he did carmen as well?



oh yeah !!! and the other one Amor de "something" !!! can remember the name...was 3 of them around that time with almost the same cast


anyone that like us recognizes that flamenco is beautiful and deserves to be shown
and spends the majority of his career trying to....good or bad weather i like it or not, deserves my respect and full support...and i did love some of the stuff in flamenco flamenco...well obviously from my profile pic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 5:56:33
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

They could just simply show one of these Casanova faces when the fingers are out of sync




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 12:17:34
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Florian) 
@Florian

wrong!

Saura no good. Youtube does a much better job than Saura. You can have him...take him.. gogo and hurry up before he considers to make flamenco3!

I´m sick of these propaganda like movies where the actors like themselves too much. ;P

@KM...... Now I fake horse ride to work! LOL
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 13:08:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

Saura no good.


Its not that he is no good...his focus has always been the baile, not so much guitar and singing. But in Sevillanas there are some nice close ups of the hands and such of Paco and manolo. Also some short bits in Carmen of Paco....that was my first Paco video and I rewind the tangos and bulerias over and over and over and learned some strumming patterns and chord voicings from that long before I saw the first flamenco movie....which really helped me learn stuff too, like flicking off the thumb for example, half compas etc. For sure youtube is better for lots of things guitar related, but a still cam vid of baile where they are little dots going back and forth on stage are boring as hell. For the simple fact the stories around the dance movies are good shows that he was good for something...sure not for guitar pedogogy but a basic over view of the art form.

amor brujo
carmen
blood wedding,
sevillanas
flamenco
Albeniz
Solome (have not seen it)
flamenco flamenco

all flamenco themed but dance is primary focus of all.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 17:20:50
 
orsonw

Posts: 1943
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Saura no good.


Maybe because Saura uses playback in his new film there's less energy? It seemed that in his earlier 'flamenco' film it was live sound, at least for the cante? e.g. when Fernanda de Utrera gets closed down by the guitar at the end of her solea she starts complaining- but they left it in the film.

Manuela is great here in a live baile recording - plus we get raw power from Juan Villar and Paco Cepero!

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 21:28:11
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
Yeah. But I´m not talking about which palos he covered in his movies. I´m just talking about flamenco flamenco and how sloppy they glued that together. They really should pay the Mexicans a better salary. Seriously. tststs ^^
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 23:38:58
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

@Florian

wrong!

Saura no good. Youtube does a much better job than Saura. You can have him...take him


alright hes mine

as ricardo says wanna see little dots dancing around with garage like sounds watch youtube...some videos are ok (most that are copied from dvds that are filmed just like sauras)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 1:24:46
 
elroby

 

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[Deleted] 
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 1:30:14
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
Hahaha :D
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 1:38:17
 
elroby

 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 4:14:04
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 1:44:53
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to elroby) 
quote:

Guitar is for little girls
and Vicente

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 6:29:51
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to athrane77) 
Funny, i like "Flamenco Flamenco" the most, because its blu ray quality, and also the sound is perfect studio quality.

Same with guitar solo. I hate bad quality videos.
Only if the video is really old, then i like it. But i don't like these bedroom videos recorded with Samsung mobile or something like that.

And oh, Vicente couldn't come, because he was giving a concert in an Elevator.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 7:51:42
 
tmock

Posts: 143
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
From: New York, New York

RE: Why doesn't Vicente Amigo appear... (in reply to Arash) 
quote:

And oh, Vicente couldn't come, because he was giving a concert in an Elevator.


Ha!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 18:56:04
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