RE: A question that might upset you

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Rmn)

quote:

hanks. On youtube there are really cool videos of him with other people from cadiz having a lot of fun with bulerias and alegrias on this tv show.

yeah love that show and love that Alegrias hes does on it...David Palomar is amongst my fav singers atm...

quote:

@Florian: It might help if you also include the older recording so we can hear what you mean.

sure i can upload some examples but i am sure u know what i mean...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2011 14:52:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Rmn)

quote:

I think in Spain for a long time (and still) the sound engineering was bad because of the poor knowledge,

I think it is simply the ear, not the techniques or knowledge. PDL's 2nd album fantasia has a great sound, even remastered versions. Siroco is drowning in reverb and sounds far away. Live in America is muddy. Luzia sounds fantastic. Producer and engineer together are important. But remastering with compression can really mess up all the work the engineer and producer and player intended. It CAN be done, be requires a person with an ear to do it. Vicente's stuff always has a good sound since Vivencias.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2011 15:07:41

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Florian)

rmn, as an engineer i assure you that compression and reverb do not effect technique. there is no substitute for playing well and no one in a pro studio would ever suggest otherwise. same as tone. cant make good tone from crap.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2011 5:25:42

Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

rmn, as an engineer i assure you that compression and reverb do not effect technique.

You don't think it affects the dynamics? I mean if you over do it you can kill all the dynamics the guitarist played so the final result is a flat performance. Seeing Nuñez play in person (for example), and then hearing his mastered recordings, it is a big difference to me.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2011 19:08:42

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

flamenco flourished in regional styles under Franco because nobody could go anywhere except the bar down the street.

Actually, I think that's what kept the pot brewing IMO.

"Networking" is a modern, practically "Internet" thing that folk think is natural and good because it makes immediate sense to the advertising influenced ipod, iphone mind in the world folk feel they are living a true and meaningful life in.

A rural or semi-closed society does not necessarily mean an underdeveloped society, depending on your point of view.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2011 19:30:48

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Florian)

Riiiiicaaaaardooo

of course it effects dynamics. thats the point of it. Not overall song dynamics, thats mostly mixing. The song dynamics are totally turned into audio sausage but mostly by automation and mastering. It'd be pretty difficult to use one compressor to flatten out all the parts of a song to a steady volume. Unless you ran the whole thing into a 20:1 limiter and cranked it lol. or used an expander and a limiter with such incredibly tight thresholds that you only got one volume all the time....not probable at all.

Automating parts that should be quiet to be louder and loud parts to be quieter does mash the songs dynamic range. on that we agree.

rmn said that modern effects change the way a player plays. I am saying that the effects have nothing to do with altering the technique of the player, at the time of the recording he does not have all those wonderful modern mixing amenities in place for monitoring. He may have a limiter and some verb on the monitor mix but for the most part that's just to keep him from killing his ears and simulating being in a live environment when he has headphones on and cant hear the room.

The compressors are all after the fact, and thus cannot effect the way the player performs in front of the mic. Unless h is slick and knows how to anticipate changes in dynamics and move closer and farther from the mic to keep the overall level the same. mostly thats a think that singers do though.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2011 0:58:10

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Seeing Nuñez play in person (for example), and then hearing his mastered recordings, it is a big difference to me.

Can you elaborate? I get that you think compression and reverb can adversely affect the dynamics of the guitarist. But I've never seen Nuñez live and am curious how different it sounds from his recordings? Is the Encuentro DVD more indicative of his live (i.e. in person, not concert) playing?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2011 6:36:34

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

The compressors are all after the fact, and thus cannot effect the way the player performs in front of the mic. Unless h is slick and knows how to anticipate changes in dynamics and move closer and farther from the mic to keep the overall level the same. mostly thats a think that singers do though.

Hem,
that is not completely true. In order to drive the dynamic range (make use of all the 24 or 16 bits when digital recording) it is better to use a little bit of compression. The peaks get squashed a bit, leaving more room for the softer parts.
Anyway, too much compression doesn't affect the technique, but can destroy the aire of a piece.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2011 6:43:22

orsonw

Posts: 1942
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to machopicasso)

quote:

But I've never seen Nuñez live and am curious how different it sounds from his recordings? Is the Encuentro DVD more indicative of his live (i.e. in person, not concert) playing?

Nuñez has an incredible power, dynamics and presence live. For me his recordings/encuentro dvd are only a pale reflection of what it is like to be in the room with him playing a concert. Seeing him live is a profound and visceral experience, even with his injury his presence is undimmed.

I'm not sure if this answers your question as you distinguish between in person and in concert, I guess you mean just guitar and no PA?
I also think that something can change in the playing when people perform with an audience, there can be a different energy and different artistic intentions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2011 7:41:08

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: A question that might upset you (in reply to Florian)

kozz, re read. i didnt say that compression wasnt used. I said that compresion does not account for the uniformity of volume. For that you need expanders gates and compressors as well as automation.

and it has nothing to do with technique or the performance during the recording. Once again.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2011 17:09:24