Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Spanish Revolution   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Off Topic >> Page: [1] 2 3 4    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

Spanish Revolution 

Exciting times in Spain. The sixth day of protests against the corrupt and out-of-touch institutional political parties, just before regional and municipal elections.
This was the scene in Madrid on Friday night:



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 21 2011 3:12:53
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Events in Spain (in reply to Estevan

This article gives a pretty good synopsis:
----------------------------------------------------

Yes, unemployment and the economic crisis have clearly brought people’s anger to the surface, but what is fascinating about the nascent Spanish youth democracy movement is that it is not serving the interests of any established political group. It is, and some would say AT LAST, a political movement of young people; it is inclusive, because the great majority of Spaniards are suffering the effects of dysfunctional political and judicial systems; and it does not line up the left in front of the right, but rather the young in front of the old – the latter in this case meaning those who are benefiting from the status quo and whose paternalistic complacency at a time where around 40 percent of young people are unemployed and most of the rest endure exploitative working conditions is finally under attack. Just when they did not want it to be, in the run-up to an election.
http://blogs.elpais.com/trans-iberian/



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 21 2011 3:15:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

Nobody expects the Spanish Revolution!

Very funny.

It makes me wonder how many centuries it will be before the American public gets pissed off enough to do this against republicans that seem to be trying to divide country into the richer and richer and richer 5% and the hand to mouth majority.
Maybe in 20 Years?

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 21 2011 21:52:30
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to estebanana

quote:

It makes me wonder how many centuries it will be before the American public gets pissed off enough to do this against republicans that seem to be trying to divide country into the richer and richer and richer 5% and the hand to mouth majority.
Maybe in 20 Years?


So republicans are the problem? People whose income is in the top 10 percent pay 70 percent of the federal taxes in the US. The bottom 50 percent of US households only pay three percent of the total federal taxes and 49 percent pay nothing. Do you want to continue to punish people who have a high income; those who are clever enough to create or improve existing products and those who are capable of managing their own money? It seems like so many of the wealthy people I know are democrats and they are as determined to use every legal means to keep as much of the money they earn for themselves as any republican.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 5:46:49
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

That's a great photo of Madrid. Here in Granada it is also happening, on a smaller scale. About 3,500 sleeping in the Plaza del Carmen. There is a fantastic atmosphere and the police did not move in on Friday night as anticipated. Today we have the elections ! Interesting times indeed.

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 8:40:47
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

This article gives a pretty good synopsis:
----------------------------------------------------

... and some would say AT LAST, ...



Yeah.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

So republicans are the problem? People whose income is in the top 10 percent pay 70 percent of the federal taxes in the US. The bottom 50 percent of US households only pay three percent of the total federal taxes and 49 percent pay nothing.


No offence, but this is upside-down distortion that you could realize self-evidently if not feeding exclusively from cool aid.

Do you restrict yourself on Tea Party BS, Fox news or on the republican party´s PR?

Ruphus

PS:
As the brain wash of glorifying capitalism has been most established and internationally viral from the US, I guess common mind there will take the longest to realize outbursting oligarchy; but considering all circumstances, I think that there has occured a remarkable progress among US folks since Bush junior.

- Which indicates the Tea Party boundless demagogy as just desperate reaction to neocon erosion.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 12:42:23
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

No offence, but this is upside-down distortion that you could realize self-evidently if not feeding exclusively from cool aid.


Of the bottom 50 percent of earners one percent pay three percent of the federal taxes collected while the remaining 49 percent pay nothing. This information comes from the Congressional Budget Office. You might not like it--and apparently you aren't able to draw inferences on your own--but it is correct.

What part of this is an "upside-down distortion"? Instead of making insults offer arguments.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 13:56:58
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1806
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I say you chaps, can we take the political discussion off-line? It could go on for ever, and this is a Flamenco forum, after all…

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 16:28:00
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

I say you chaps, can we take the political discussion off-line? It could go on for ever, and this is a Flamenco forum, after all…


...and this is the Off Topic section.

Although I do agree that endless tit-for-tat head-banging is tedious and not necessary here, in the interests of maintaining a generally friendly atmosphere.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 17:26:40
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

can we take the political discussion off-line?

No!
Why you don't give your opinion instead! Are you affraid about it? At least assume your ideology!!

I'm really glad that Estevan post this message.
But I understand that alot of people are denying the consequence of the ****ing bankeros activity!!
The public money save them. And now they continue to act like "nothing happened". But remember who's gonna paid their bill?

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 18:11:57
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

remaining 49 percent pay nothing


So for earnings of $45000 a year or below you don't have to pay any income tax??? Cool, I think I will both back to the states!!!

I think now I know why the US is having economical problems at the moment

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 18:12:45
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

I say you chaps, can we take the political discussion off-line?


Exactly right.

"Kettle" 'em and whack 'em in accordance wiv the Law I say!

In a Democracy you must obey, for a peaceful society...

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 19:16:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

People who make less than 45,000 do pay taxes. That is all I will say.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 20:40:36
 
Gilles

 

Posts: 16
Joined: Jul. 19 2010
From: Amsterdam

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Snap! I wish my first post would have been on practicing bulerias in anticipation of the great SanLucar get-together.

..and I certainly don’t want to be seen as siding with New Age opinion to market economics as voiced by some… but I strongly feel that while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own facts.

With all respect, I read the CBO numbers slightly less demagogic. And frankly, I find the income inequality and the relatively low tax burden shown by CBO to be more telling than the fact that poor people pay fewer taxes.

CBO shows distribution of income and tax burden in quintiles (steps of 20%) and does not refer to deciles (steps of 10%): (source: CBO presentation to Congress, December 2010)

* Top 20% income households do pay 70% of federal tax revenues. On face value this fact may seem exhorbitant, but this same group of households simultaneously earns 55% of all income (average income $265 000, average tax rate 20%). The top 1% income households pay 28% of federal tax revenues and earn 19% of all income (average tax rate 30%). So abstracting from that top 1%, the penultimate (?) 19% earning households pay 42% of tax revenue whilst earning 36% of all income.

* Middle quintile pays 9% of all federal taxes whilst earing 13% of all income (average income $65 000, average tax rate 14%).

Surely, this picture is not as bad as you described. Even considering the whole (skewed) top quintile, the average tax rate for this group is 20% and can hardly be considered punitive, excessive, or even discouraging. At least by European standards, excluding Greece where apparently no taxes are paid at all .

All in all, the percentage paid in taxes pretty much tracks the percentage earned in income. And yes, those poorest 20% (share of income 4%, share of taxes less than 1%, average income $18 500, average tax rate 4%) hardly earn enough to be able to pay income taxes, but they do pay the other components of federal tax revenue(payroll/social security, corporate and excise taxes). Overwhelmingly this group consists of elderly people who don’t work or households with an income below $20 000. I don’t particularly begrudge them their fiscal ‘freeloading’.

Next post will be on topic. Probably along the lines of how the hell I can participate in the Sanlucar fin de fiesta and not have to ‘mime’ the part where they go in and out of the cambio! I can never hear when they go to the E7 and once I am in I can’t anticipate when they go back to A (via C7-F), so I sort of strum that part apogando and try to catch up later.

Cheers,

Gilles
http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=1656
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 21:03:14
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Gilles

quote:

I can never hear when they go to the E7 and once I am in I can’t anticipate when they go back to A (via C7-F), so I sort of strum that part apogando and try to catch up later.


Keep listening to it and isolate that part of the recording while playing along with it. Sometime you ca feel a slight pause before they play the E-7 chord, like you can layer it in behind the singer. And you know the C to F change will come even if there was no E-7 so just be ready for that even if you miss the E-7. You'll hear it soon, it's very distinctive.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2011 21:39:31
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Gilles

Gilles, welcome to the Foro and great post!

quote:

CBO shows distribution of income and tax burden in quintiles (steps of 20%) and does not refer to deciles (steps of 10%): (source: CBO presentation to Congress, December 2010)


You’re referring to a 30 page summary presented to congress by the CBO. The format you found does offer this information in quintiles, but the US government has made this information available in less condensed forms some of which include raw data. It’s not incorrect to use deciles and even smaller subdivisions of data…

If you add state tax rates (which vary significantly from state to state) to the federal tax rate along with sales tax the effective tax rate can be almost as high as 50 percent. There are other financial burdens that people who can pay end up paying. For example, my monthly water bill ten years ago was about $10. Now it’s $25 per month for the minimum and this increase has a lot to do with people not paying their bills. Someone has to make up for this loss to keep the system from going bankrupt.

California makes people pay a yearly fee based on a percentage of the value of the vehicles residents own. There are many expenses that have built in fees and costs that hide the fact that this revenue is a form of taxation. This information intentionally doesn’t make its way into tax revenue charts. When it comes to health care and many other issues the poor don’t pay because they are judgment proof. Someone has to pay for this shortfall as well. Because of all this there is a felt sense—and rightly so—that taxes are very high in the US even though the stated numbers are low in comparison to other countries. You are correct to say the picture isn’t as bad as I described above—it’s actually far worse.

There is also the issue of national debt. I often see this number expressed per capita, but what percentage of the taxpaying public will carry this burden if another crisis occurs? The federal government has tried to spend its way out of this economic crisis with mixed results. Even if the debt ceiling is raised what will happen if China can’t continue to extend credit to the US? This whole situation is just too risky.

I appreciate your concern for the poor. There’s no way to leave them behind (unless the system fails) in a representative democracy where politicians buy a majority of votes with taxpayer dollars to win elections. The monthly redistribution of wealth through all of the government programs should be sufficient proof of this. My main concern has to do with all of the different entitlement groups—especially politicians and government employees—and all of the tax revenue that is simply wasted.

Income inequality is such a loaded term. A lot of millionaires have blue collar jobs. They don’t have expensive tastes and choose not to spend the money they make. There are many others who make far more money, live a wealthy lifestyle and because of this have been unable to save a million dollars—not a bad strategy really. Those with good impulse control and long term planning do better financially in the long run than those who don’t. The elderly and those on fixed incomes—who are far from being fiscal freeloaders--are the ones who suffer the most. Many lose their homes due to the high taxes that should benefit them. Everyone’s tax burden—including the working poor--in the US is greater than one would assume after reading a 30 page document on the subject.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 3:58:59
 
Gilles

 

Posts: 16
Joined: Jul. 19 2010
From: Amsterdam

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

John and Stephen,

Thanks for the welcome (and thanks for the tip on the dynamics of the fin de fiesta).

O boy, I can now see how these off- topic threads veer off… so I’ll keep it short.
quote:

It’s not incorrect to use deciles and even smaller subdivisions of data…


My issue wasn’t so much on how you read the data, but that you properly cite the data. My impression was that you cited CBO on the statistic that the top 10% income earners pay 70% federal taxes.
But in fact, CBO states that the top 20% contribute that 70% of federal tax revenue.
A huge difference (no matter how you slice it in deciles, quintiles or other stats) and that was my main point to keep the discussion clear.

Aaah, economics. That social science that tries so desperately to be acknowledged as an exact science. This thread has some life in it, still .

For a better delineation of the topics of national debt, financial bailouts, the causes and possible remedies of this great recession I highly recommend this blog entry by Brad DeLong.

Considered a flaming liberal in the US, he is slightly right of centre by European standards and this post is a very readable and condense hop-skip-jump over the relevant issues. It provides some red meat for the ‘hang ‘em high’- crowd as well as some ammo for the ‘govmint is the problem’- libertarians.

Off to relearn my left hand grip on the fingerboard. Unfortunately I have been lazily holding my guitarneck in the cup of my thumb-joint all these years and now I still have very limited reach, strength and precision on the melody-side of my guitar.

Probably easier to fix then the economic crisis, though.

Best,
Gilles
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 9:17:11
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

No-one expected the Spanish revolution and we didnt get it either. Yesterday the PP swept the boards as many voters, mostly the left I guess, abstained. Today in Granada the alcalde is celebrating by sending in the police to break up the demonstration outside the town hall. Now he has been re-elected he is not worried about how it will look.

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 13:09:06
 
marrow3

Posts: 166
Joined: Mar. 1 2009
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

When protesters come together in large numbers, to be fair in your response, you have to lay out all the relevant facts in presenting an argument, to either support or denigrate their demands.

So the distribution of burden of taxation only makes sense when put together with the distribution of wealth then you see why it is so, at least that is my opinion. Innovation, hard work, risk taking (with new technology), and being frugal with resources in business can make or help with success, okay. But there are other processes, which are less sympathetic, such as asset stripping, market monopolisation, short selling, housing bubbles, bubbles built on misuse of financial instruments and pyramid schemes through which a few can become wealthy at the majority expense.

As I understand it, the slogan 'no les votes', comes from the fact that countries with the familiar bipartisan politics, both sides are basically enacting policies which benefit corporate interests (through lobbying and the deep pockets politicians need for campaigning) whilst paying only lip-service to voters values. For this reason the main political parties don't represent their core values either conservative or socialist and the words themselves have become unusable. IMO, for right or wrong, this sentiment is echoed in demonstrations in the UK and other countries, but not really in mainstream media.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States).



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 15:35:32
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Kate

quote:

No-one expected the Spanish revolution and we didnt get it either.

It will take time, but at least people have begun to get together to try to work out a humane alternative to the current unsustainable mess.

quote:

Yesterday the PP swept the boards as many voters, mostly the left I guess, abstained. Today in Granada the alcalde is celebrating by sending in the police to break up the demonstration outside the town hall. Now he has been re-elected he is not worried about how it will look.

That's sad. That guy's a buffoon who seems intent on despoiling anything that is beautiful about Granada.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 16:20:08
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to marrow3

quote:

As I understand it, the slogan 'no les votes', comes from the fact that countries with the familiar bipartisan politics, both sides are basically enacting policies which benefit corporate interests (through lobbying and the deep pockets politicians need for campaigning) whilst paying only lip-service to voters values. For this reason the main political parties don't represent their core values either conservative or socialist and the words themselves have become unusable. IMO, for right or wrong, this sentiment is echoed in demonstrations in the UK and other countries, but not really in mainstream media.

Exactly.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 16:24:44
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Kate

quote:


No-one expected the Spanish revolution and we didnt get it either. Yesterday the PP swept the boards as many voters, mostly the left I guess, abstained. Today in Granada the alcalde is celebrating by sending in the police to break up the demonstration outside the town hall.


Now I feel better about my own country knowing that Spain is just as sheepish
My Spanish friends here are very progressive politically, but I associate with a selection of highly educated scientists who like flamenco. They probably don't represent a full slice through Spanish political thought.

My best friend was a researcher at UC Berkeley, he moved back to Galicia after being here for 18 years citing his discomfort and disgust with the American complacency in politics. Now I know it was really that he missed Spain, but could not say it.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 16:45:40
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan
That's sad. That guy's a buffoon who seems intent on despoiling anything that is beautiful about Granada.


Yeah one of the latest ridiculous proposals is a tunnel to link the ALhambra and the Albaicín. Scary stuff !

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 17:32:44
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to estebanana

Spain, like Greece, is discovering that a country, just as an individual, cannot continue living beyond its means. In both cases, the national government has to reign in spending in order to maintain a reasonable credit rating. If they don't, their bonds will be junk, they will be unable to pay interest on their debt (much less the principal) and they will be unable to raise financing on the international markets.

When Prime Minister Zapatero assumed power seven years ago, he was true to his Socialist principles and implemented programs that, over the long haul, were bound to fail. Some programs were legitimate and some were beyond the pale. He raised the minimum wage and extended health insurance to cover virtually everything, including sex-change operations! He made scholarships available to everyone, and he granted rent subsidies (called "emancipation" money) to young adults. (When I was 20 I would have liked the U.S. Government to subsidize my apartment, too, instead of having to earn the money to pay my monthly rent.) Mothers received the equivalent of US$3,500 for the birth of each child, and children attended free nurseries. Proudhon and Saint Simon could not have imagined a more inclusive Socialist paradise of goodies. Problem is, it all had to be paid for, and the crunch has come.

Just a word about Germany as the engine of so much of the bailout for Greece. The German Government recently raised the age of full retirement to 67. Greece, whose full retirement age is now 61, recently suggested raising the age of full retirement to 63, and the greeks had violent demonstrations. Guess which one is the fiscally responsible adult and which one is the whining child throwing a tantrum?

I think this is the situation that Spain, with good reason, is trying to avoid.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 17:54:11
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Kate

quote:

Yeah one of the latest ridiculous proposals is a tunnel to link the ALhambra and the Albaicín. Scary stuff !

I saw that one last week - totally barmy!



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 18:36:08
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Gilles

quote:

My issue wasn’t so much on how you read the data, but that you properly cite the data. My impression was that you cited CBO on the statistic that the top 10% income earners pay 70% federal taxes.
But in fact, CBO states that the top 20% contribute that 70% of federal tax revenue.
A huge difference (no matter how you slice it in deciles, quintiles or other stats) and that was my main point to keep the discussion clear.


I believe you were citing the 2007 tax year and I was using information from the 2008 tax year. There should be some variation from year to year. Either way your analysis was excellent...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 19:28:30
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Spain, like Greece, is discovering that a country, just as an individual, cannot continue living beyond its means.


For some reason a lot of people just can't accept this. I keep hearing of the deepening debt crisis in Europe and have a feeling that soon enough we'll be hearing the same thing about the US.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 19:34:09
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Estevan

quote:

Spain, like Greece, is discovering that a country, just as an individual, cannot continue living beyond its means.


What about banks?

Of course you can live with a lot of debts. Germany has debts which will never be paid back. But Germany, as a state, can apply economic pressure, and the banks profit from its debts too. US can apply military pressure and obviously has not much problem to get funds to spend for "freedom" or "peace missions" all over the world. The rules for a country are obviously not the same as companies, let alone individuals. There is an increasing number of regulations to take care of, the less economic impact you have, from high impact on the state's side, over systematic importance on the banks' side and low impact when it comes to 90% of the people, who, ironically, are the condition for everything (the system) to work more or less against them.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 19:38:16
 
Escribano

Posts: 6422
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Kate

quote:

a tunnel to link the ALhambra and the Albaicín


WTF? The Darro is smack between those two high points so how would that work? An uppy-downy kind of tunnel?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 19:39:53
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Revolution (in reply to Escribano

Simon:

Torres Hurtado quiere conectar la Alhambra y Granada con túneles y ascensores

Villafranca cree que la propuesta de conexión de la Alhambra conllevaría riesgos

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2011 19:51:44
Page:   [1] 2 3 4    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>Off Topic >> Page: [1] 2 3 4    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.09375 secs.