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weak first string???   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

weak first string??? 
Recently bought a BZRW flamenco negra from a well-known Paracho builder.

Has a gorgeous rich sound and excellent handling, but the high E string seems a bit weak, especially at the twelfth fret.

The builder's US agent advises this is 'normal' with these guitars and the trebles should "pop out" (his words) in "a short time"?

I've been playing it pretty hard the past six weeks or so, and have not noticed any significant improvement in the high treble response.

I switched the original D'Addario composites for Hannabach Flamenco mediums, but did not improve the situation; high E is still rather weak, with little sustain.

Any of you builders out there have any ideas about this. How long does it take a new negra to 'pop out' in the trebles ? Or should I be trying a different string combination? Any recommendations ?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2011 14:03:25
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

Recently bought a BZRW flamenco negra from a well-known Paracho builder.

Has a gorgeous rich sound and excellent handling, but the high E string seems a bit weak, especially at the twelfth fret.

The builder's US agent advises this is 'normal' with these guitars and the trebles should "pop out" (his words) in "a short time"?

I've been playing it pretty hard the past six weeks or so, and have not noticed any significant improvement in the high treble response.

I switched the original D'Addario composites for Hannabach Flamenco mediums, but did not improve the situation; high E is still rather weak, with little sustain.

Any of you builders out there have any ideas about this. How long does it take a new negra to 'pop out' in the trebles ? Or should I be trying a different string combination? Any recommendations ?



I've shortened the outside treble fan brace on its bottom a little (about 4mm) and that seems to help pull up the tension a little. Or sometimes just taper the brace a little thinner toward its bottom end and leave the top end the same original height.

This has worked for me but I don't guarantee it for other builders, and if the 12 fret is weak then there might be other things to consider; like a tuning point of one key being more open than another, which favors an open note but faster decay of it. And this is not necessarily going to hurt performance as Pepe Romero had this problem with some of his Rodriguez guitars, which he loved, and he just played pass this problem.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2011 15:43:58
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to britguy) 
britguy:

As you can see, you only need to shorten one of the braces. I mean everyone can do that (irony)

Back on topic. I´ve never met a guitar that had "pop out trebles" But in general, the trebles get stronger with time. On some guitars it goes very fast on others it might take up to 1/2 - 1 year. Some devellop more power than others. I had a guitar here which develloped some very strong trebles after around half a year. Then I sold it because it turned out to be very nice.
When you say 12th fret, is it only that fret that is weak or is it the other frets in that area?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2011 9:04:12
 
estebanana

Posts: 9373
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to britguy) 
I've been wanting to do this for a while now, I don't know why.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2011 16:37:07
 
prd1

 

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007
 

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to estebanana) 
Brilliant - could only be bettered as a concept album by Todd Rundgren's Utopia's "RA"...

...but Alex Lifeson doesn't seem to have 21 problems with his 12th fret - or am I seeing things back to front in a palindromic sense - What's the story?

Sorry to drift but I can't help with the original query!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2011 21:55:59
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
"When you say 12th fret, is it only that fret that is weak or is it the other frets in that area? "

Thanks for your interest, and comments etc.

I notice it more at the 12th fret when actually playing - I have to press down really hard to get a decent tone; but the higher frets do seem a little weaker, when compared with the second string. Or when compared with an older but similar guitar!

This guitar is only about two months old, but I have played it hard 3-4 hours every day since getting it.

I'm wondering if I should experiment more with other strings to put a llittle more "sing" in the trebles. Any advice here?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2011 14:09:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9373
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: weak first string??? (in reply to britguy) 
Try a d'Darrio high tension treble 'e'. If the guitar is built really tightly it can take several months before the mid range and treble strings reach a plateau or mature more. Pop out is maybe too strong a way of saying it, most guitars don't change in that way, it's more like a green fruit becoming ripe.

Here are the good and bad things:

It's good the guitar is still opening up or that it can mature more. That means it was not under built. A guitar that is under built too much can sound good very soon after you begin playing it, but then not open up well because there is nothing there. It's slack and lacks muscle tone. It will usually continue to be a weak guitar. It sounds like your guitar is not weak. This is good.

However if the one string is not in the same ratio of strength as the other strings or it has a strange standing wave or false harmonic where it should not be then you have trouble of a profound nature. This is bad.

But don't fear, you still have options. Here's one thing you can do. Take it to the most expert set up person with a 100 mile radius of you. I mean the VERY best person for nylon string guitars. Have them go over the set up component by component. Have them inspect the saddle to make sure it is seated and tight all along its length. Make sure the top of the saddle shaped correctly.

Don't try to do this yourself - often times there are things so subtle only the eye and ear of a good repair man or woman can pick up the trouble. Before you explore any type of alteration to the physical structure of the instrument, which I also don't recommend (but it's your guitar so do as you feel in the end) have the guitar checked by a repair man with an emphasis on the bridge area.

When you said the other treble strings could be better, my repairman ears perked up. That should be an 'Ahh Ha !' moment for a repair person. I suspect if basses are working well the treble side of the saddle needs to be checked, if it is not making proper contact with the bottom or sides of the saddle slot, there can be a serious loss of power and sound.

Good luck.

Stephen

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2011 16:06:43
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