RE: The challenge issued by my school teacher

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estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to n85ae)

The small planes are good for some things, the old Stanley 102 is a sweet little plane, but I would not choose it to prepare that joint.

If the 3" plane could do it, but the job will be more finicky. Just use your square or straight edge to show you where you can see light under the blade of the square and plane a shallow pass on the high spots only. It might be good to practice your plane technique on some scraps.

One thing that gets you in the groove is take a short length of wonky 2x2 -more or less- of soft wood and work on it until it's square. It's harder than it sounds but your mind will be super focused after you do it. Then with your focused noggin you can move to your work in the same zen like work mode. Then you can speak about zen like states and wax poetic and **** like that. But that state of mind is real:)

And like Martha Stewart likes to say: .."and that's a good thing"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 1:45:57

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Almost finished squaring. I forgot to take a picture of the finish squaring.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 15:11:43

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

Gluing the scarf. I used a L block to stop it from slipping. I used 6 clamps in total, I will forever be known as the clamp hogger.

Sorry I forgot to take a picture of the angle when I was done squaring. I will show you once the glue dries. And yes i wiped off the glue after

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 15:12:48

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

I used 6 clamps in total, I will forever be known as the clamp hogger.

All guitar makers are clamp hoggers. That is why I started that thread about Anders the Mother of All Clamp Hoggers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 17:25:48

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Scarf joint dried and here it is: The nut is perfectly square (thanks to my handy dandy hand planer). A small piece of wood chipped off on the side unfortunantly, but it will be taken off once I cut out the headstock. Also the rightside isn't square so I have to plane that some more.

The next steps are making the right side square, putting the veneer on, than cutting out my headstock

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 17:42:26

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

More pictures.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 17:45:22

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

Last one:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 17:46:27

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Looks fine.

What is that long silver thing purporting to be a ruler laying on that table?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2011 20:56:13

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks!

Come on Estebanana! The common complaint among men is that nothing is ever big enough - That is big enough!

Also I made my first boo-boo. I planed the headstock thickness to 17mm instead of 18mm. I noticed half way through the planing and now I have to finish planing the entire headstock down to 17mm tomorrow. The final product should have a thickness of 20mm according to my plans so with the veneer on it will be 19mm, or I can just not plane the veneer and I can still have a 20mm thick headstock. What do you guys think?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:22:07

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

If your headplate is smooth and flat you can leave it a little thicker to get your 20mm or double up your thin veneers black white, black white, headplate like Manuel Reyes does.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:44:51

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to Sean)

I will probably just leave the veneer thickness. Is the 20mm headstock thickness really important or is it fine to have it as 19mm?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:47:36

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Do you have access to some veneers to put under the headplate? You can put a black and a white under there or some other colors to match your purflings if you're going to use them.

I guess Sean beat me to it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:48:33

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Thickness kinda depends on the tuners you're going to use..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:50:27

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

The final product should have a thickness of 20mm according to my plans so with the veneer on it will be 19mm, or I can just not plane the veneer and I can still have a 20mm thick headstock. What do you guys think?

F8ck the motherf8cking plan.

Here's the deal, the head stock has to be thick enough to make your tuners work. Period. Measure your tuners plate width and plan your headstock so the plate does not stand proud of the headstock. Spanish guitars are made to fit the hardware fitted on them, if your head stock blank is too thin you're going to have to make it up by making your headstock veneer slightly thicker to get your tuner plates to fit.

Measure your headstock a get out your tuners and do some thinking and figuring.

Also if you choose to make head stocks with pegs you can get away with thinner head stocks. If you ever blow headstock meant for tuners save it for a peg head guitar. I shoot for 7/8" thick for tuners and as thin as 5/8" thick for pegs. ( depending on if I'm trying to make it an older style model) These measurements are proved out on many old Spanish guitars. I use inches because older Spanish work used to be done in inches and when it's translated to metric sizes it just feels really random to me. Although now I mix metric with inches when I work.

Plans are good to a certain extent, but you have to think about what you actually have in terms of hardware, scale length, etc. and make your moves according to what is real. Just my opinion.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:51:31

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

All I have is a 3mm thick rosewood veneer. I can probably go out and buy some sheets but I have no idea where to get them - any suggestions?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:52:41

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

Alright Estebanana!

I do love peg heads so I would love to turn this into a peghead! I will have to decide though, I guess I will wait until I finish the neck than decide whether or not it will be a peg or machine tuning guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 1:59:27

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

I guess I will wait until I finish the neck than decide whether or not it will be a peg or machine tuning guitar!

Better to be decisive and make a plan now than to wait and leave it to chance. I bet if you do some measuring you'll get your tuner plates on there. It will be close.

Ahh, and you can always do a modern thing to gain a few of your precious mm back, a veneer on the back of the head stock. You could go 1.5 to 2 mm with some rosewood on the back and get yourself to 19mm in a hurry! DO some research boy!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 2:14:45

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Yes its best to decide what you're going to do first, tuners or pegs and stick to it.
If you decide tuners you should know which ones you will use and their exact dimensions. You don't want your headstock to thin for the tuners nor do you want to spend a lot of time carving your fancy headstock design only to find the lyre is to long and sits high into the carved portion because that looks pretty ****ty. If you decide on pegs you don't need to bother with veneers, they show off more when you use tuners but you will need a peg shaver and the right tapered reamer to do that job. With a tight budget you can do the job cheaper with tuners and have the option to upgrade them at a later date. The veneers you can get from the same place you purchased your wood, they sell it in squares not to expensive two will be enough for two or three guitars, pick a maple and black or red or whatever colour scheme you decide on.
It's also cheaper to get your tuners from Stewmac or LMI then to buy them locally.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 4:10:35

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Im really enjoying this thread crobson. The photos showing your progress are great. I think many people, including myself, will learn a great deal by following the construction process of this guitar. well done!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 11:34:41

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

I think you should plan ahead a little and go ahead and buy all your materials right now. You will have to start on the soundboard soon anyway. I would recommend a simple black/white headplate veneer and a black/white top purfling, no back and side purflings. And some basic Schaller tuners.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 12:19:15

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Some grade 9 punk from first period class messed with my headstock. When i arrived the headstock extremely not square - i managed to somewhat fix it but the headstock is down to 16mm. I just put on the veneer and i am using nine clamps to warp the veneer into place. When dry i will run it through the jointer to square it. I will upload progress pictures around 3 eastern time. I am not in a good mood now. I am going to lock up everything from now on.

I am writing this on my phone.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 14:42:13

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

Sorry to hear that. Don't do anything hasty with your headstock yet. There are ways to fix things.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 15:04:38

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

Yes as Steven mentioned before you can always add a second headplate on the back. You don't have to order another rosewood headplate, take a look around the shop, a slight contrast in colour will work like mahogany, subtle is nice it doesn't always need to be loud.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 15:49:17

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to Sean)

Alright thanks guys. The veneer is dry now but I am leaving the clamps on over the weekend to make sure they hold because it has a slight bend on it now. I will square it up on monday. I regret glueing on the veneer because I could have just shaved it down to 15mm which hopefully would have got rid of the dome the guy shaved into it. All well, so far it looks great so I am not worried anymore. I was actually thinking of doming the headstock downwards a little - I think it would add a cool effect.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 16:30:14

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

Yikes!

It's not generally a good idea to pressure spring most joints, if that is what you did.

I was going to say if you can afford it Pegheds plantary tuners might be a good option for you now if you have a thinner headstock. or regular wood pegs.

You do need to lock your stuff up. In school situations people will steal your materials. I've seen it a hundred times. They will take unused materials faster than they will adulterate your work. But keep your work safe too from now on.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 17:52:50

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

I was actually thinking of doming the headstock downwards a little - I think it would add a cool effect.

The effect will likely not be cool when you have to plan your string routes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2011 17:57:39

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: The challenge issued by my scho... (in reply to estebanana)

My shop teacher told me the same thing, we heated up the wood until it was easy to bend then clamped it into place so there was virtually no extra strain on the joint - it was like the headstock wasn't even warped. It bent into place instantly. Also with the veneer I am up to 19.5 mm

My headstock crisis is more or less over (I hope)

Damn

I guess I will try out the more fancy stuff once I actually build a few guitars . Pictures are coming soon - I forgot to bring my camera so I had to use my phone