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Nic Jones: Penguin Eggs Nancy Kerr & James Fagan: Steely Water John Renbourn: The Enchanted Garden Kate Rusby: Underneath the Stars Kathryn Tickell: On Kielder Side
Scotland
Ossian: Dove Across the Water D-i-c-k Gaughan: A Handful of Earth Julie Fowlis: Cuilidh The Tannahill Weavers: IV The Corries: Strings and Things/A Little of What You Fancy
Ireland
Danú: Think Before You Think The Bothy Band: The Bothy Band (1st album, 1975) Dervish: Live in Palma Andy Irvine & Paul Brady Dolores Keane & John Faulkner: Sail Óg Rua
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Nah, Stu....being Glasgwegian, it's not really my scene..
As Billy Connolly used to say..."Four Polo Necks Singing the Irish Rover.."
I was much more into folk like Bert Jansch, Davy Graham, John Renbourne....the Folk/Blues scene.
This FakeFolk sorta stuff sung in a strange accent (learned from a record) usually by middle-class University student girls about their imagined and fantasized memories of gutting the herring catches on the beach for 10 hours a day as peasants with numb fingers in the freezing cold, (usually standing on stage with their hair tied back and skirts down to their ankles and a finger stuck in their left earhole) frankly did nothing for me.
We were too busy up the "Maryland" Blues Club, listening to the new music and eyeing up the talent
imagined and fantasized memories of gutting the herring catches on the beach for 10 hours a day as peasants with numb fingers in the freezing cold, (usually standing on stage with their hair tied back and skirts down to their ankles and a finger stuck in their left earhole)
Ah yes… Ewan MacColl, when he was King of the Herring Fishermen. Was that before or after he was King of the Gypsies?
i just gotta say that i grew up with my grandad (who died this year aged 100) who sang me a few songs he got from his dad, who grew up as a farm labourer, was an accomplished poacher, never learned to read or write, and knew about 200 old "folk" songs.
and i've been through higher education so probably count as a "middle-class University student" or at least ex student....
so if i sing old "folk" songs is it only "fakefolk" if i learn songs from records that i know my great grandad sang? but if i got them from my grandad it's real folk? and what about if i got 2 verses from my grandad and supplemented with a few more off a record?
and what about jansch/graham/renbourn singing blues - is that "authentic"? did they learn blues by oral tradition from their families or from records? does that make them fake blues?
Speaking of which: does anyone known of a folk or singer/songwriter forum comparable to this one? I have some Nick Drake transcriptions I want to disseminate, as the published ones are garbage.
I don't really mean to disrespect your taste. I too was a keen "folkie" from about 14-16 and had records by the Carter Family, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Jesse Fuller, Rev Gary Davis etc as well as some of the Blues legends and also attended the folk clubs regularly, where I heard a lot of Traditional and Contemporary stuff.
I could just never abide this "Traditional British" stuff sung in this really weird accent. It didn't seem to matter which part of the country the singer came from, or which part of the country the song originally came from, it seemed to be sung in the same weird accent with stretched and distorted vowel sounds and maximum nasal whine.
Is this " Authentic Traditional English"? Is this really how people spoke and sang in every region back then?
Or is it just "Authentic Folkese"?
It's sort of like..if you ask anyone from Britain, Canada, Australia or the USA to put on an "authentic pirate" accent, they always close one eye and twist their mouth to one side and growl "Aaarrr...Jim, lad...".
Mark...about Jansch & Renbourne etc....I loved their guitar playing but was never keen on their singing styles and lost interest in them when they formed Pentangle.
No offense guys, just personal taste. I just can't stand the stuff personally. I also hate this "Happy Clapalong" Scottish stuff too (like Johnny Lad) and the Corries etc.
I was just honestly speaking my mind, rather than lying.
That is not to say that it doesn't bring joy to many.
ron, the only reason i thought of you is cos you often reference the odd bbc doc/radio prog.
im no folk fan so havent been offended at all..i just enjoyed the programme. thought some may do too.
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This FakeFolk sorta stuff sung in a strange accent (learned from a record) usually by middle-class University student girls about their imagined and fantasized memories of gutting the herring catches on the beach for 10 hours a day as peasants with numb fingers in the freezing cold, (usually standing on stage with their hair tied back and skirts down to their ankles and a finger stuck in their left earhole) frankly did nothing for me.
did you watch? they actually spoke to some old herring girls (now in their 90's who tried to sing some old songs they used to sing)
and also what makes the songs in this programme fake?? they all seemed genuine to me...ok so some of them were recreated and some of them were for fun/performance but were all from real sources.... although i dont much like that presenter
I don't have the energy to explain anymore except to say that too many evenings of this kinda stuff eventually got to me and made me realize that there was another world out there...
No offense guys, just personal taste. I just can't stand the stuff personally.
so why not just say "it's not to my taste" instead of completely dismissing it and ridiculing it on the basis of authenticity ("FakeFolk" "learned from a record" "by middle-class University student girls")
most of it's not to my taste either actually, but I have taken an interest in it, have some appreciation of it and respect it because it's my roots. Actually, the stuff i "liked" the least (when i listened to it) was the most "authentic" and traditional....
And much like the social, political, economic etc. conditions have changed in Spain and flamenco has changed and evolved to reflect that, and people argue about keeping it just as it was etc. etc. the same arguments go on in the "folk" world.
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I could just never abide this "Traditional British" stuff sung in this really weird accent. It didn't seem to matter which part of the country the singer came from, or which part of the country the song originally came from, it seemed to be sung in the same weird accent with stretched and distorted vowel sounds and maximum nasal whine.
you know, really, you sound like someone who criticises flamenco saying the guitar playing is just hitting the guitar while drunk and the singing sounds like someone torturing a cat. On old recordings of different singers from different parts of the UK they usually sing in their local accents - and local accents were stronger years ago.
Oh, and that vid you posted, no weird accents, stretched or distorted vowels, not much nasal whine... but yeah, i get it, you don't like it. You don't have to "explain" that you don't like it, i don't like it much either, so just say "i don't like it"!!!
Paul, you might find that the "folk" world has some divisions between general "folk" which can include singer songwriters with a folky acoustic style like Nick Drake, and the "traditional" side of things, which sticks to traditional songs and music.
Agreed, there's not much whining or weird accent in that vid, but this is the sort of stuff I used to hear down the Folk clubs which finally gave me a total aversion towards British Trad Folk Music, even though the performers there are first-class and very competent at what they do...(and I'm not being sarcastic here.)
Also, I wasn't talking about old recordings, but about the Traditional Folk performers of the early 60's.
Other than that...well, basically you are telling me that I never actually heard what I heard in the 60's..that it was all imagined...the nasal whining, the"folk-ese" accent and finger in the ear etc...but that's OK.
(Well they do say that if you can remember the 60's, you weren't there. )
Anyway it had the effect of putting me off the brand ever since.
(I just thought the above video was important as it is maybe the original tune that evolved and was refined over the decades to become ...
j/k
Anyway I've learned my lesson, so from now on I don't want to see anyone here disrespecting Benise, Alex Fox, Esteban, Manitas or the Otter, or indeed that kind of music in general...
From now on please just politely say "It's not to my taste. I don't like it".
Also, I wasn't talking about old recordings, but about the Traditional Folk performers of the early 60's.
ah, right, i think there must have been a fashion for
quote:
the nasal whining, the"folk-ese" accent and finger in the ear etc
in the sixties... i'm not saying you didn't hear what you heard, i just think as it's not like that on the really old recordings, and that style of interpretation isn't around these days, or if it is i never heard it when i checked it out a few years ago.
example - martin carthy i guess is the kind of sixties folky you're talking about? i don't like his style either, but his daughter eliza carthy sings completely differently
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Anyway I've learned my lesson, so from now on I don't want to see anyone here disrespecting Benise, Alex Fox, Esteban, Manitas or the Otter, or indeed that kind of music in general...
fair point, but mostly they get criticised/disrespected (here at least) as being representative of flamenco, which i think is a totally valid criticism/cause for disrespect.
And i would say the same sort of things to anyone who dismissed the whole of flamenco based on these sorts of people.
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