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Will Fingers Have To Weaken With Age?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

Will Fingers Have To Weaken With Age? 

Many a times now have I read of older players who switched to softer string tension.
Something I wouldn´t understand, as being used to dismiss anything less than high or super high tension, for medium let alone low tension to me having felt much too sluggish.
There have been times that I would play flamenco technique even on steelers, which even PdL, when he tried such out at one time, experienced as butchering fingers.
Something I´d certainly quickly regret if doing nowadays.

For, as of late I notice to have periods in between when high tension suddenly feels hard, or like last night, my finger tips feeling a bit like pounded steak meat.
( Possibly, just as it seams to get gradually harder to maintain a belly six pack that used to stay in place so easily until some years ago.)

What do you think?
Is it that, despite of in general pretty firm hand grip, with age finger tissue getting squashy nonetheless?

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2010 11:51:36
 
Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

My guitar teacher in music school told us he thought that lifetime/career players reached their peak in their late 50's. Its after that age that he thought agility and strength began to diminish.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2010 15:13:26
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

despite of in general pretty firm hand grip, with age finger tissue getting squashy nonetheless?



What you need is Finger Viagra.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2010 15:25:54
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

Or maybe soak in onion juice?


Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2010 17:27:57
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3626
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

What do you think?
Is it that, despite of in general pretty firm hand grip, with age finger tissue getting squashy nonetheless?


you should ask this guy,



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2010 12:27:50
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

you should ask this guy,




Jeez! He looks like a skid row loonie there!

(Blocked out of his skull on Methylated Spirits)

Honestly, if if went outside for a smoke at the interval in a concert hall, I can see Security barring him from getting back inside and calling the Police...

I can just see it...

"But I'm Paco de Lucia...I'm playing here tonight!......
Sure, Bud....and I'm Frank Sinatra back from the dead for a final concert.. now let's go quietly"

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2010 17:55:12
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3626
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ron.M

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2010 19:50:49
 
marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

hey at least he trimmed his beard earlier in the year
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 23 2010 0:28:24
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

"But I'm Paco de Lucia...I'm playing here tonight!......
Sure, Bud....and I'm Frank Sinatra back from the dead for a final concert.. now let's go quietly"


If it can happen to Bob Dylan, it can happen to anyone.

http://www.thefader.com/2009/08/17/bob-dylan-mistaken-for-vagrant-detained-by-police-in-nj/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 23 2010 0:48:29
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

Back on topic.

Whats the english word for this deaease that weakens you joints. (fingers, knees, whatever)
It comes with age.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 8:32:27
 
lowden

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Apr. 14 2010
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

I think you mean arthritis Anders
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 9:15:27
 
johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

It is called "arthritus".

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Too much is not enough!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 9:16:54
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3626
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

arthritis? (2 types, osteo- and rheumatiod-)?

osteoporosis?

these conditions are not inevitable with age.

the point about posting the pic of paco is that he seems to be doing ok with his age.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 9:18:53
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

I was questioning about tissue.
Tissue hypothetically getting slack / soft and with that sensibility for high tension strings.

Wile some responses here seem to beforehand neglect such physical development of the body, in forums for classical guitar posts can be found in which people mention that they switched to lower tension strings with age.

And I have the feeling as if there was an encreasing sensibility going on with myself.
Only that I am not sure whether the phenomenon might be bound to personal side-effects, which is that my fingers used to be toughened up by working as dental technician ( where you regularly grab hot and edgy work pieces, hit milling heads etc. ), as well as through practicing Wing Tsun kung fu full time ( where your hands and arms are being strained as well ).

So, as my case differes in so far that anyway there is a change supposed to happen from times when a pot of boiling water could spill over lower arms and hands without injury occuring, while meanwhile ( without dental work and only little WT ) becoming sensitive to even just the heat of holding a hot glassful of tea, I wondered in how far there is a general change of sensitivity and because of age.

For one, I don´t think to be suffering under arthritis, and likely neither the other players mentioned.

Besides, who thinks an indiviudal player like Paco de Lucia should serve as general indicator, is probably at least informed about this artist´s chronological choice of string tension, I guess.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 11:12:25
 
edguerin

Posts: 1596
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

Whats the english word for this deaease that weakens you joints. (fingers, knees, whatever)


Old age?

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2010 12:58:18
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
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RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

so has anyone here had problems with osteoarthritis in the fingers and what did they do about it?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2010 9:25:16
 
johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

Yes, I have problems. It is actually painful to play especially the thumbs but all of the hands hurt. I have tried everything except not playing (2-5 hours a day every day for years). There is no cure but you can take glucosamine and chondroitin/MSM. These can actually lubricate and rebuild lost cartilidge (so I am told by the doctors). Other than that you are stuck except for anti-inflamitories like ibuprofen and the like. BTW, the hands do not weaken (at least in my case) they just hurt and lose flexibility. If I had know this I would have done things differently. I would have been more careful of injuries to my hands (I have had many) i.e. not so much martial arts. I would also have taken the above suppliments even though I had no symptoms. I think I might not have practiced as much either. It would be better to play at a lesser level well than to play at a higher level poorly.

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Too much is not enough!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2010 12:27:08
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
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RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

so has anyone here had problems with osteoarthritis in the fingers and what did they do about it?

I have osteoarthritis in the fingers. After playing actively for over 40 years I had to give it up since the left hand fingers won't bend tight enough to hold chords. I'm now playing classical piano which doesn't require the tight bend. The odd thing is that there doesn't seem to be any loss of facility. Fast trills and scales are still possible. In another twenty years I may be able to play piano as well as I once played guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2010 14:40:13
 
a_arnold

 

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

I'm 62 and still play a clean picado at about 12 or 13 notes per second. In fact, I think I've gotten cleaner and faster over the last few years since I retired and began concentrating more on guitar.

The only change I have noticed in my hands is at the site of an old injury (a knuckle where I had a cut to the bone, exposing tendons etc. when I was a young teenager). That knuckle has begun to ache. I take a lot of herbal anti-inflammatory stuff, and so far haven't experienced any other pains -- maybe occasional transitory aches in wrists and ankles, but nothing that affects my playing.

I find my biggest age-related problem (other than dying) is in learning new music. It takes longer to memorize it than it used to.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2010 18:53:21
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to a_arnold

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

I find my biggest age-related problem (other than dying) is in learning new music. It takes longer to memorize it than it used to.


Though ten years younger, I face such problem with languages.
Before, taking language challenges on the fly, meanhwile things seem to have changed considerably.
Currently, for over three years now in a new place I am still struggling for the right words. Let alone the black-outs in between when several languages vocabulary collide inside the head while seeking for an individual idiom of the language currently mainly in use. Especially right after switches from a language to another.

Something that wouldn´t occure until some years back, when jumping back and forth used to be seamless.
Not to mention of times long ago when there was the ability to learn a complete language including pronounciation in upwards from 4 months.
Impossible today.

There seems a change in that operating the grey lumpy obviously is getting slower ( since age of between 18 to 23 speed wise descending anyway ), while superordinate cognition and associative connecting still progressing. ... Until maybe another two decades ( if earth still be reeling then ) at the most, when probably things start going down the hill alltogether.
( Sure, do there happen to be exceptions with the one or other individual, but I don´t count with myself being all to synaptic with over ~ 70 or such.)

Even though latest survey shown a bit sobering in regard of in how far agility and brain work could effectively be prolonging functional status, aside of some distinct supports like e.g. omega3 or mnemonic practicing, to my understaning one healthy thing should be of first priority:

Passion.
Being curious, as best thing one could do.
Keeness and aesthete being leading factors in nous maintenance.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2010 22:10:31
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Ruphus

Thanks about the posts about osteoarthritis. Something is happening to my left hand. But I love Classical piano, so there´s hope

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2010 9:05:55
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Thanks about the posts about osteoarthritis. Something is happening to my left hand. But I love Classical piano, so there´s hope

Anders,
I always assumed the piano would seem easy compared to the hopelessly difficult classic and flamenco guitar. I suppose it is easier to achieve a level where you can actually play something but to play the master works at this point seems totally out of reach. Playing any instrument is a humbling experience. Take glucosamine and enjoy the guitar while you still can.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2010 14:33:47
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3446
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to johnguitars

Edward Freeman, the English flamenco guitarist, transcriber and teacher was prevented from playing by arthritis for many years. After numerous unsuccessful trials, eventually a medication was found that enabled his return to playing. This was thirty-odd years ago, so it's not some new advance. Of course, it might not work for everybody.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2010 15:33:22
 
a_arnold

 

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
 

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Thanks about the posts about osteoarthritis. Something is happening to my left hand. But I love Classical piano, so there´s hope


My doctor says he treats a lot of older patients, and he says that osteoarthritis is very common in their hands, BUT he has noticed that among his patients who are musicians who exercise their hands constantly (piano, guitar, harp, etc) there is almost no osteoarthritis in their hands. His theory is that the exercise keeps arthritis at bay. Possibly they have stronger hands that are less prone to injury, or because they are musicians they have taken more care to avoid injury to the hands (old injuries tend to be the starting point for inflammation).

So yes, there is hope.

I was at a juerga recently where Juan Serrano played. He is getting on in years, (I think he is 75) but his speed is undiminished.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2010 17:01:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Will Fingers Have To Weaken With... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Edward Freeman, the English flamenco guitarist, transcriber and teacher was prevented from playing by arthritis for many years. After numerous unsuccessful trials, eventually a medication was found that enabled his return to playing. This was thirty-odd years ago, so it's not some new advance. Of course, it might not work for everybody.

RNJ


Interesting. By any chance do you know Tom Cotton? A student of Freeman's?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2010 17:52:23
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