Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?)

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vigrond

Posts: 161
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?)

Hi all, I am new here, and just learning Flamenco.

I am studying a Solo por Bulerias in Keys to Flamenco Guitar by Dennis Koster (p.102)

In the beginning, he starts off with a difficult chord. I was shown the fingering by one of my guitar teachers, but it is very stressful and seemingly anatomically damaging.

Here is the chord:

E -
B 3
G 3
D 0
A 4
E -

fingering:

-
4
3
-
2
-
( little finger, anular, medio)

When I attempt to reach over my medio to the C# on the A string, my anular/little finger pretty much collapse like dominos onto the fretboard, or are forced to slide past the 3rd fret. Neither which action assists the medio finger from reaching far enough toward the 4th fret to make a clear sound (my maximum reach seems to be on the 3rd fret, or a little after, which makes a not-so-good-sounding buzz sound).

I am a person who enjoys thinking technically and what is the 'most' anatomically correct way to do something.

So, if you are very familiar with this chord and had/has as much difficulty as I, I would appreciate any tips so my fingers don't look like Z's : )

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 3:20:25

Guest

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

quote:

3
3
-
4

if i understand the fingering correctly [431]...try using your 2nd finger...media...could be a typo ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 3:48:11

vigrond

Posts: 161
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to Guest)

you are correct, I meant medio -_-,

corrected in post

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 3:53:56

Guest

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

good to know

sounds like you may need to isolate the little finger on the fretting hand and build up some strength and control...
scott tennants book 'pumping nylon' has some cool left hand independence exercises....
sure it will come...
i used to try all sorts of bizarre things like playing major or minor scales using the little finger alone...
maybe tilt the finger toward the sound hole while trying this chord...more to the side of the tip...
classical etudes can also help...
other than this i guess just go for it...the buzzing will go

btw a better description for this chord is Bb #11 [sometimes may be called a
b5 ...OR Gm6/Bb]...the C# on the fifth string is a passing tone...
A# is'nt really correct as the chord functions in the Relative Key of Dminor/A phrygian or Phygian Dominant [C or C# depending]...
so Bulerias/Tangos chords are A7 {b9] Bb #11 [b5] and C9...etc

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 5:38:43

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

flamenco has a lot of weird fingerings like this.

the only advice i can offer is the keep the hand relaxed and loose. no hard gripping. i dont think my thumb even touches the neck when i play this chord. and try using a capo, and practice it higher up the neck, it might be easier.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 6:13:13

Guest

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

and practice it higher up the neck, it might be easier.

excellent advice!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 6:27:43

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

Looks like your teacher gave you a alzapua fingering. if it is an alzapua than then thats the correct fingering if not try 4-2-3.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 6:43:06

CarloJuan

Posts: 169
Joined: Sep. 19 2010
From: Philippines

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

dear friend this is a common chord in flamenco! but don't worry cause i for one was also alienated by this weird three finger assembly.

trick is to try to make the thumb go to an EXTREMELY acute angle. Try to practice not making the m and chico fingers collapse. It's awfully hard at first but looks cool and acrobatic. lol.

It'll be easy once you get it down. no worries

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 7:51:48

vigrond

Posts: 161
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to vigrond)

Yes this is alzapua.

This is all very excellent advice, thanks so much! (Never expected so many replies)

I have the book pumping nylon, and will start doing pinky exercises and practice this more up the neck, and experiment with my thumb a little more

Mucho gracias
much obliged

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 15:32:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Very difficult chord... (A#(#5)?) (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

try using a capo

this is good advice.

Without capo you have to reach a long way over your 3rd and 4th finger with the 2nd finger as the frets are wider in 1st position.

With a capo on, you can play this further up the neck where the frets are narrower.

It is very typical to play bulerias with capo on 3rd or 4th fret, but there's no reason you can't put it on 5th, 6th or 7th fret for practise.

In time you will be able to play without a capo if you want to.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2010 18:17:11