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HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR
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Hello everyone, I've just ordered a Yamaha CG171SF guitar... should arrive some time in March. Anyway, the shop has offered a basic set up (to their standards, not mine), but it specializes in Classical guitars, so they might not get it quite right. I'm pretty much a beginner when it comes to Flamenco, and this is my first guitar... so what should I look for in the setup? Eg. string action, etc. If the shop doesn't do the setup to my requirements, I may have to do it myself... so any advice on how to do this would be greatly appreciated. Plus, should I buy special Flamenco strings, or do you think the ones that come with the guitar should be good? Thanks. James By way, I spoke to Eduardo Niebla (anyone heard of him?). Not quite "Flamenco", but Neuva Flamenca influenced with a bit of jazz in there. Anyway, he recommends Admira guitars... says he plays a 2000F (I think its just a standard Classical). Also, apparently Gerardo Nunez plays a Pedro De Miguel (there's one currently on Ebay for $400). But has anyone heard of Bernd Steidl (see 'Psycho Acoustic Overture')? He's a German acoustic guitarist who uses quite a few Flamenco techniques (although his style isn't 100% Flamenco). If anyone knows what guitar he plays, I'd be interested to hear it.
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Date Jan. 27 2005 15:49:10
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Patrick
Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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James, Setting up a guitar like the Yamaha is a bit different form a $5,000 concert guitar. Your main issue is going to be string height. Getting into the frets is going to be too big of an issue. Most, if not all off the work is done at the saddle. What you want to do is measure the distance between the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E and high E strings. Most flamenco players like about 3.0 to 3.5mm at the bass side and 2.0 to 2.5mm at the treble side. Personally I like a low action with a bit off buzz. A lot of players that play very hard will go with a higher action to keep form over buzzing. The problem with a guitar in the Yamaha price range is the frets are likely not overly level. If you get the action too low, you may wind up getting a lot of unwanted buzzing. The nut varies the string height only when you play “open” without a capo. If the strings are high at the first and second fret positions without a capo you may have to take the nut down a bit. The best way to reduce the height of the nut and saddle is to lay a piece of course sand paper on a flat surface. A lot of luthiers use a piece of glass. Sand off only the bottom of the nut and saddle, never the top. You will note the saddle is going to be higher on the bass side to reduce buzzing. Go slow and take your time. Take a bit off the saddle and try it. It may take a few times to get it the way you want it. You can always sand more off, but you can’t add it back on. By the way; trying to buy a guitar that a particular player uses is futile. A lot of top players own dozens of guitars. I read an interview that Paco gave. He was miffed that certain members of the Conde family had been telling people Paco indorsed there guitars. He said, let me make it perfectly clear; just because I play a Conde, I in no way indorse Conde guitars. These guys are also getting the cream of the crop. No builder is going to send a borderline guitar to a top player; it’s just not good business. The fact that most of us don’t want to accept is what we hear from top guitarist is 90% them and 10% guitar (or less). Personally I own some very fine concert level guitars, but am I a better player because of them? If you heard me play, it would be very apparent the answer is no!
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Date Jan. 27 2005 17:49:35
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to Escribano)
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Hi, Yeah, the nut replacement still sounds tricky... filing down the string grooves with a needle file... I am quite skilled with my hands, but if you get that wrong, you'll have crooked strings. I supose a template of some sort would be useful... thats if I do have to change the nut. The Schaller Lyra and Hauser tuners are quite conservative... appropriate for a Flamenco guitar I suppose. The electric styled ones ( http://www.schaller-guitarparts.de/1125.htm ) are interesting! But only on the right guitar. If you wanna see some *OUTSTANDING* tuners and buttons, check out the R Rodgers homepage... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r.rodgers/RTM/Index.htm He does the wooden buttons I was talking about... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r.rodgers/RTM/Buttons.htm but only as part of the tuning set (not sold individually, but included with the side plates, etc.). Needless to say, he makes some great side plates in various styles... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r.rodgers/RTM/Gallery.htm Unfortunately, though, his prices start at £298... and thats just for a standard basic tuner set (more for any of the fancy stuff). He's also fully booked up until 2006, and even then only accepts a few private orders. Which is a shame. Still... if you're rich and don't mind waiting...
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Date Jan. 27 2005 22:46:54
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Guest
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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If I were you, I would just ask the shop to setup the guitar with around 3,2 - 3,3 12th fret on the bass side and 2,8 on the treble. That should do it, and if the guy in the shop knows how to setup a classical, he'll know how to do this. BTW, you said your classical was 5mm... Thats very high!!!!! Standard is around 3,8 -4mm
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Date Jan. 28 2005 8:38:12
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to Guest)
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Anders, Thanks for the advice. Your recommended action hights are slightly higher than those recommended in one of the other messages. But as I am a beginner, I suppose I might not want the strings too low, so you're advice is probably right. The dude at the shop definately knows how to lower the action on ANY guitar. But when I told him it was a Flamenco guitar, so the action needs to be quite low, he said he'd have a look at it when it comes in and use his own judgement, but not make the excessively low. However, I think I'll phone him today with your measurements and try and get him to use those as a guide. As for the action on my Classical guitar being high... well, yes, it is. It is also high on my electric guitar (Fender Stratocaster). This is because I started of learning to play guitar by taking lessons in Metal Lead guitar, and needed to do lots of two fret (and one fret) bends. This technique is obviously easier on a guitar when the action is higher, as you can get your fingers under the strings (to push them up) more easily. However, I'm not sure if Flamenco technique uses many bends. If it does, the lower the string action, the harder I will find it to get my fingers under the strings to do bends. James
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Date Jan. 28 2005 10:10:30
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Miguel, Yeah, I know tuners can be expensive... but I got the Yamaha for a very good price, so I've got a little left to spend on the extras. I'm sort of interested in Gilbert tuners... http://www.gilberttuners.com/images.html and in particular the 18 carat gold plated traditional plates with the snakewood buttons... http://www.gilberttuners.com/images/gold3.jpg Those cost about $200 (or so), and I've heard that they're some of the best tuners available. Only problem is that some people think they're not best suited to Flamenco guitars (aesthetically)... but I like them, and they're a lot cheaper than the R. Rodgers ones I posted a link to in my last message. Let me know if you think the Gilberts might be a waste of time... perhaps you are right... maybe the tuners on my Yamaha will be good. In fact I'm sure they'll be more than adequate for my needs. But it's always nice to customise your guitar. Anyway, I'll wait and see what they're like before I go spending large sums of money (that I could probably spend better on some decent guitar lessons). As for the bends... I'm sort of into the Nueva Flamenca influenced scene, which tends to mix styles, so there may be the odd bend involved. But, as you say, these will be in the minority, so the lower action shouldn't be too much of a problem. I phoned the guitar shop and told them to set the bass string at between 3.0-3.3mm and the treble to 2.5-2.8mm. He said he can't provide a professional setup, but will do his best. I'll give it a play when I get there and see how it sounds. If need be, I can adjust the setup myself as told by the other guys. Thanks again for all your advice everyone! James
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Date Jan. 28 2005 21:24:48
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Guest
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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Miguel Wrote: quote:
Personally, I would just ask the setup guy to lower the action to "high flamenco" range. Thats exactly what I said, the only difference being that I did put the numbers on, in order to help the buyer and the seller. (and avoid discussions).
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Date Jan. 30 2005 8:19:08
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Guest
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RE: HOW TO SET UP MY NEW GUITAR (in reply to Escribano)
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Simon. Get one and bring it down here. I want to se one of those Yamaha things that everyone rave about. I 'll set it up for you if you want.
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Date Jan. 30 2005 8:21:18
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