What the heck happened to Marija Temo?

Foro Flamenco

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

What the heck happened to Marija Temo?

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 > >>

Login

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

What the heck happened to Marija Temo?

I knew Marija 20 years ago, and she could play in time, and compas. She could sing quite well too. (cante)

I bewildered watching this, cause its like something happened to her, and she completely lost all sense of time, tempo, or compas.
I dont know what to make of it.

How does that happen to somebody?

Anybody?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 12:24:40

orsonw

Posts: 1943
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

Flamenco played in classical guitar style- painful

Bach played by a flamenco- beautiful

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 14:18:58

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

todd, 20 years is a long time.
i dont know about you but guitarists i used to admire only 1 year ago now sound "off" to me.
maybe your standards have risen faster than her rate of progress?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 14:28:51

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to ToddK)

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 16:41:20

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito
Any of the greats from Gerardo to Paco, although they can play incredibly well, will probably tell you it is about the cante

If so, why not giving f*cking up the guitar and start singing? Hypocrisy?
And WTF has cante to do with this video?

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 16:57:24

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1898
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

not being able to keep a steady compás is not an off night...it's incompetence...
you can have an off night not being able to play cleanly with either hand, you can forget parts of repertoire, you get nervous and your hands are shaking etc...
maybe you know her that's why you say this?: "You can blow her away on the solos BUT can you accompany as well as her Todd. Why don't you post a vid so we can judge your accompaniment. "

he was not even being disrespectful to her...

anyway, i've never seen anyone who learned the compás properly, forget it completely...i've known guitarists though who could simply never learn it, they play Paco's stuff on stage and i can't figure out the beats - and they're technically not even bad at all...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 17:04:56

Mark2

Posts: 1882
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

I met her many years ago and she could, in fact, play in perfect compas, and I have no doubt that if their were some palmas or a cajon happening, she would be right on it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 17:11:53

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to XXX)

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2010 22:34:38

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1898
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

i believe she may be a good guitarist, but judging from this performance, not a great one at flamenco, she has nice technique and tone at places, it seems obvious that she more or less understands flamenco, but what she did to the compás was horrifying...

and you know it well Todd has his own style that one can often find offensive, but in this case he's spot on...and poor Juan Martin doesn't get on the foro and how much stick he's getting here :)...i think any self respecting artist with an ear can take criticism, if she understands flamenco well and re-listened this performance she'd be ashamed and got to practicing to a compás track...

btw, my comment stands for the artist on the big stage getting the applause and some cash for the performance, not the many wannabees out there who post their stuff on youtube...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 0:31:59

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

Ok, this thread should be deleted, cause its going really bad already.

I meant no offense. I was just confused how somebody can lose their sense of tempo over the years.

For Romerito, here ya go.

Marija sings, accompanies, and plays guitar way better than i ever will.

Hows that? Feel better now?

Ok, this thread go bye bye.
TK

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 0:40:18

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

I bewildered watching this, cause its like something happened to her, and she completely lost all sense of time, tempo, or compas.
I dont know what to make of it.
How does that happen to somebody?

Incredible, really. Her technical playing skills are obviously well developed and founded in Flamenco, however, she’s in contempt of time, both tempo and compas, which she’s ignored completely.
I suppose that is what you would describe as a “timeless” musician !!

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 2:15:22

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

she’s in contempt of time, both tempo and compas, which she’s ignored completely.

Apparently, its tacky to actually say something about stuff like that.

My fault, its been so long, and i had this crazy idea that i was gonna speak my mind.
Huge mistake. I promise to choose ignorance for now on.

Apologies

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 3:03:40

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to ToddK)

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 3:41:12

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

I guess since I am so big and burly, I didn't notice the lipstick marks on my ass.

Marija always had problems with tempo. She is still a good player for what she does in most cases, I don't care much for her as a singer, but she knows that. She got that cool Taylor guitar commercial gig. Bet that paid well.

I better skidaddle before I get in trouble.

ToddK must be on his period.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 5:49:01

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito
Many guitarists would "giving f*cking up the guitar and start singing?" if they could sing.

BS. When you just started guitar you cant play one note either, but you learn it because you want it. Most untrained people sing better than they play guitar even.

quote:

IT IS a group thing...CULTURAL.

And guitar is not a part of it? Yes or no, im open for all answers, i dont care. But you have to set this in your mind before making judgements.

quote:

Try this experiment...ask everyone here who accompanies to give it up and JUST play solo.

Accompaniment is an important part of guitar playing, of the way flamenco guitar is played and influenced. I also mean solo guitar is influenced much by accompaniment, you can get ideas while accompanying.

It wasNt about accomp vs solo it was about that its all and everything and wholly and solely and only about CANTE and nothing else. I have not decided for myself why this is being said, ie whether its true, or whether it is expected from you to be said. If its true why would anybody want to do anything else than singing? If not, well... Hypocrisy.

Btw. try to make a flamenco concert without guitar. GOOD LUCK.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 9:59:18

Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

I think thats pretty unfair on todd to be honest....
sounded to me like he just wanted to understand how this could happen to a player if indeed it has happened

quote:

I bewildered watching this, cause its like something happened to her, and she completely lost all sense of time, tempo, or compas.
I dont know what to make of it.

How does that happen to somebody?

this is hardly a "critique"

sound more like observation giving birth to curiosity to me.

quote:

BUT...the question is should you throw a peer to the dogs like that?

perhaps if hed posted that vid with comments like "this is appaling" "dreadful sense of timing" etc "what a joke" blah blah.... that would've been more akin to being thrown to the dogs...

no one was thrown anywhere.....I think this is more a case of "taking a peer into the lab and having some chums discuss some theories"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 11:30:55

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to XXX)

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 16:50:37

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito
Taken out of context. Read the post. Many FLAMENCO guitarists, including Paco, would sing if they could. For a more recent quote see Javier Limons quote at flamenco world. He would not be searching for Buzuki players, and by inference, playing the guitar, "if he could sing like Potito."

(just to avoid misunderstandings, it should be clear that whenever i say guitarrist, i mean flamenco guitarrists......................)
I have no doubt that some or many guitarrists, and other flamencos, say this in interviews, in small talks, or in other contexts. But i doubt the honesty behind it. If i should be wrong, i want somebody to explain to me why on earth they dont learn singing. All singers had to learn it. No singer woke up one day and "could sing flamenco" out of nothing. The training in Spain is less formal and more cultural i agree, but nonetheless it is a TRAINED and LEARNED ability, just as guitar. You will not find 2 people with identical hands, or muscle response, or whatever ability is relevant for guitar playing either.

What im saying here HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOLO GUITAR. Im talking about the role of guitar in general (accomp+solo) in comparison to cante, which is to be said what "IT IS ABOUT" (see your quote of Paco, Gerardo above).

My view is that guitarrists are guitarrists because they chose to be so. If they rather wanted to be singers, they would have learned that. Simple as that.

That said, im not implying anything like guitar would be more important than cante or anything. I just think its time to reflect that people can be attracted by different things in flamenco and that every discipline (cante, dance, guitar, palmas) is influenced by each other.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 17:18:59

Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Anthropology of learning has proved that information/knowledge/skill, spreads more rapidly in "Communities of Practice." This IS a community and a thread like this demonstrates, TO ME, the unfulfilled potential of the FORO.

a fair and good point....I agree!

But perhaps bach studies on a flamenco forum is not the best way to gauge this.
I dont know, just a thought on perhaps why that post didnt get the technical responses/ideas it could've.

I posted a thread recently asking for help with some material for fandangos de huelva and while a few members strived to help me (one being a very helpful dancer) who posted some good vids, the responses from the many guitarist on here was overwhelmingly underwhelming!! ...infact rather dissapointing...but perhaps this was to do with timing... who knows?

quote:

Although I love the foro this is a great example of the BS on here.

BS exists everywhere surely and one persons **** is anothers fun/release/humour(not referring to this thread, but rather some of the japery that goes on on here)...it cant all be technical/theoretical debate or we'd go insane no?.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 17:33:17

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Stu)

Kevin is right. Solo flamenco guitar is something reserved for a few elite transcendently bad ass players like Paco, Vicente and Tomatito. They are always bad ass accompanists as well because you don't become a soloist without first learning to accompany. Sorry, it just doesn't happen.

That leaves the rest of us...... we accompany the people around us and support a group effort. I love this. Its my favorite thing in the world.

Below the accompanists are the next group.... the soloists who are in denial about the situation. They are often very good players, excellent in some cases, but due to isolation or hard-headedness have never learned to support singers and dancers. Pedro Cortes and I have been preaching the gospel of accompaniment for years, but just like church.... few listen and follow the narrow, difficult path.

Students of flamenco guitar listen up......... learn to accompany. Get OUT of the practice space and connect with human beings. Have a drink and talk about flamenco with non-guitar playing creatures. Soon you will find yourself in the midst of dancers and singers. As you improve you will also notice that you have attracted better dancers and singers into your life.

Flamenco is a social activity. Create a scene in your town. Be flamenco. Guitarists who hang out by themselves all the time are sort of weird. Haven't you guys noticed that?

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 17:55:02

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

Again, the topic has magically derived to "accomp vs solo" as if they were two completely separate things and as if anybody here implied solo being superior to accomp. I could puke all over my keyboard.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 18:03:59

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to XXX)

The Foro has always been a place for soloists and people interested primarily in solo flamenco guitar, fast picados, tone, falsetas..... there are a few exceptions, but thats what this place really is all about. Its a place to nerd out on guitar stuff. I do find it entertaining, but there is only so much of that I can take before I throw my guitar in a case and head out to play music with people.

This thread is really about ToddK's superior attitude. He probably used to think Marija had it all together, when in fact she didn't. As Anthony stated

quote:

maybe your standards have risen faster than her rate of progress?

........ Bingo. This is the case.

Marija studied with Pedro Cortes BEFORE I ever did. I used to be jealous because he had shown her some of his material that I really wanted to know. But I soon realized that as Chuscales often puts it in regards to material he has taught people...... "batteries not included."

I still think she's a good player. Isn't she conducting orchestras or something. Singer,Dancer, Guitarist, Conductor..... damn.... thats a lot of responsibility.... and we have to hold her to an acceptable standard of rhythmic ability on top of all she has accomplished.

Shame on us.

Solo guitar is superior to accompaniment. Everyone knows that Deniz. Its the Foro. Go along with it.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 18:11:33

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

Jason, many of the very few regular posting members either do accompany now or have experience in doing so. After one year break, I just re-started with accomp 2 months ago by playing in a dance class and i travel 2 hours by train to get there...

So far about "people interested in solo guitar but not willing to go out".

Although i agree that this forum is more about solo guitar than anything else, I have to insist this message about "denying soloists" bears no relation to what my post(s) to romerito were about. If you werent referring to them anyway, then no problem. My bad.

edit: Sorry for the offtopic intervenience, but i just thought romeritos answer to Todd was just offtopic as well and completely disproportional. And man this sentence about cante gets SO OLD! I have no doubt that if this lady would not be a respected persona in your flamenco circles (for example if she were a classical guitarrist) then all the comments supporting here would NOT have taken place. Im only judging from this one video that is linked here. Ok im out for today.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 18:44:36

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to XXX)

Its cool Deniz. You rock. You are down with the flamenco program. I just agree with Kevin that Todd is sort of a d_i_c_k sometimes. It makes you wonder why a talented guy has to be that way. Why is it that we only see Todd surrounded by Auralex foam in his "cock"pit. Are there any videos of him in public during daylight hours? Any of HIM on a stage? I am sure he has given more than a few public appearances as a flamenco guitarist. Marija despite all her flaws does have a lot of respect for flamenco and even if people do "fall from grace" and lose their gifts for one reason or another (Requini or Niño Miguel come to mind), isn't it kind of screwed up for someone to come and post about it to instigate some negative commentary about it? The difference is here that Todd was wrong about her in the past and shows that back in the days (Those good old "Todd-Free-Zone days"

) perhaps Todd didn't know as much as he thought he did. Todd is hard on people when he is on his period.

edited for punctuation.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 19:23:20

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

And they are not even soloists. They take a whole crew with them to do palmas, dance, play cajon, bass etc. When I saw Paco LIVE he played a Rondena solo. That was the only SOLO.

Because the average audience get asleep when listening only to solo guitar. The dance and singing is the crowd pleaser in shows of solo guitarists. Vicente uses Rumbas and cante, Paco and tomatito most often a dancer and some singers.
I watched Pacos old DVD 2 days ago... There he had a rondena, buleria..and the rest..rumbas + tangos. + a dancer. So..around 70% crowd pleaser.

quote:

They are always bad ass accompanists as well because you don't become a soloist without first learning to accompany. Sorry, it just doesn't happen.

If you suck with playing the guitar you also can´t become a good accompanist. So its the famous question: Who was first the hen or the egg? You need both.

ah... whatever. Its true. If you get no experience in accompany..dance and singing.. you will never be able to rock solo guitar.. Jason is right.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 19:27:57

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to Doitsujin)

actually Doit... people say accompaniment is the real deal, because it is indeed the real deal. Soloists kick ass..... people impersonating soloists don't

In my career, I have done only 2 concerts where I was a "soloist".... luckily one of them was videotaped. The one that wasn't was a better show.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 19:33:06

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

Just wanted to say, Marija sucks, and Jason plays way too hard, and
way too many notes.
I'll think of more negative things to say later, im bit tired now.

TK

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 21:34:44

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

Cool Todd. Get some rest. I will check back after my gig tonight and see if there is anymore fun to be had.

At least your not kissing my ass.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 21:41:30

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to ToddK)

To be fair to todd, It may not be auralex foam.

I think I have seen pictures of him playing elsewhere....

_____________________________

[signature][/signature]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 21:57:11

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: What the heck happened to Marija... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

To be fair to todd, It may not be auralex foam.

Perhaps the off-gassing of that cheap foam makes him grumpy and tired.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2010 22:00:17

Page: [1] 2 > >>

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.109375 secs.