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RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: Metronome, Drum Machine, Compás CDs, or Software?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

quote:

Not sure how many people would buy it at a higher price


Hi Roberto,

It's not a matter of a higher or lower price....it's more about that I think you have a unique brain for extraordinary art creation and I think you should pursue or at least consider this avenue for possibly far greater rewards!
(Or if you want to pursue the programming path, then I'm sure the big games manufacturers would be very interested in your work.)

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2010 19:25:16
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Lucerom

Okay it's done now. Much simpler versions of many of the windows.

Download Now

What's New

How to show the minimalist versions of all the windows if you have already installed BM Pro

If you have the more buttons hidden, then you get them automatically.

Otherwise, go to Opts | Options (Ctrl + 202) and switch "Show MORE buttons" off first, which will reset all the windows to their most minimalist versions - then switch it on again to show the more buttons once more.

Or, to get the most minimalist version of a particular window just keep choosing Less until you can go no further.

Interested to hear whether it works for you, whether it makes the interface feel less complicated and easier to work with.

Also fixed some minor bugs relating to the Flamenco Metronome.

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2010 19:43:20
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Ron,

Rightio. Thanks for the idea and thanks for clarifying.

You might like my Lissajous patterns - they are based on music again, mixed with 3D art.

Lissajous 3D

I had fun with these ones, which I thought might be a big "hit" but hardly anyone has shown any interest in them so far. Nothing like the interest in BM Pro. Not yet anyway.







The patterns are derived from frequencies of notes in musical chords.

cheers,

Robert

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2010 20:01:59
 
Escribano

Posts: 6422
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

Your talents are being truly wasted on a metronome Roberto although I am curious to know more about your day job

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2010 20:08:13
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Escribano

Well there's a lot to be said for doing something you enjoy doing.

This is my "day job". I don't need a lot of money to live on, and in the UK get support from the government too, the "working tax credit" - they pay me tax rather than the other way around, same for anyone who is self employed and on a very low income.

Which means I can work full time on projects like this. Income from it keeps growing though not enough yet, and there are lots of musicians who need a metronome in many different musical traditions. Also my polyrhythm metronome has long been one of the parts of Tune Smithy that gets a lot of keen interest from musicians.

So that's why I decided to go all out with the metronome and develop that as far as I could, with as good a UI as I could manage and see if I can get that to work.

So - thing is, couples filling in a gap in the market for some of the rhythms, uses things I know how to do such as 3D graphics programming and also music and midi programming - and sometimes in software you find its the simpler things that end up getting the most sales.

Enjoy the programming, and all the rhythms, and finding new things about rhythms as well, and programming things that musicians want, and finding out about what they want in the software. If I can earn just a bit more from it then I'm well content with this as a way to earn my living.

I have other things I want to do, such as maths reasearch, and developing some board games I invented, and basically, would like to take more of mey inventions and get them to a point where they are useful.

Not that much bothered about earning a large salary, though a bit more would be useful for e.g. equipment etc. If it was indeed of interest for art installations etc, well I'm happy with that idea too though wouldn't know where to start to get something like that underway. Most likely something like that would happen as a collaboration with someone else in the art world I imagine, with the right background, contacts and understanding of how you do things like that.

In no hurry, right now getting my existing software to a point where it is more polished and easier to use seems the priority.

Does that make sense?

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2010 21:25:10
 
Escribano

Posts: 6422
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

Extraordinary, thanks!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2010 22:02:24
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

quote:

If it was indeed of interest for art installations etc, well I'm happy with that idea too though wouldn't know where to start to get something like that underway.


Hi Roberto,

Sure, having good contacts and friends in those circles certainly makes things very much easier.

However, failing that..why not phone up your local Art School and try to arrange a casual chat with one of the lecturers there? Take a laptop with you.
I'm sure you will find them very helpful.

Another road would be to post some links to your metronome on some suitable Arts forums on the internet and ask what they think.

Going down the software road, why not email a couple of the smaller games developers and say you would be interested in any freelance work they might have. Also the visual graphics development companies for TV and Film.

Obviously there are going to be other issues such as productivity and meeting deadlines, but as far as the creativity thing goes, I agree with Simon that you are wasting your talent sitting at home developing metronomes.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 8:59:30
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Ron,

Yes, but why exactly is it wasting my talent? I mean please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick an argument, just talking it over and a question seems best way to do that.

If it is something I enjoy doing, and if it is useful for musicians?

I mean - thanks for the ideas and all that. And I do have relatives in the art scene as I said not just my neice, also my nephew (by another sister) has connections with it as well if I wanted to explore it, and if I was really keen on the idea could do something about it probably.

But - just because of my particular interests, although I enjoy art, making a metronome and exploring unusual rhythms just interests me more than making an art installation - at least if doing it on my own that is.

I'd enjoy collaborating with someone else in an art installation, that would be great fun in fact, if there was someone else involved as an equal partner who could field the questions and deal with the artistic side of things.

But not sure I'd put enough enthusiasm into it on my own to go through all the stages involved in getting it underway without someone else on board who was enthusiastic as well and on the Arts side of things. I wouldn't be able to do an artist's type misson statement, or field questions about the installation or any of that sort of stuff you have to do.

With games programming - that's a whole specialised area. I don't have the background for it, and again - there are lots of people doing it. While no-one else out there making a polyrhythm bounce metronome, if I don't do this, it won't get done at all probably not in the near future anyway. And it's quite a challenge programmatically, the programming is interesting. It uses my background and skills in midi programming, maths, understanding of how music works, etc. and it's interesting to work on something that uses your skill set. Like if good at wood carving and music, and good ear for sound, then it is interesting and fulfilling to work as a luthier. Same sort of feeling.

I did wonder if some of the animations might be useful for films in some way. Or indeed maybe games as well, as something exported from my software then imported into whatever software they use for the 3D stuff. So - perhaps that is something I could try to explore actively in some way. I.e. idea of collaborating by programming my software to make animations which could be imported into games or films.

Anyway it might happen, and thanks for the ideas, particularly the idea of an art installation never even occurred to me before as a possibility and may talk it over a bit and see what I can find out.

Also thanks for the idea to post to art forums. I may well give that a go, might also be a way to get more interest in my Lissajous 3D program as well, for some reason never thought of it. I just thought of music, and maths forums, and didn't do much of that either actually.

It's something I've just discovered recently - that if you find the right forums, can help a lot to talk about your product with others as with this thread here. If you post in the wrong type of place, it just falls like a lead balloon so rather than e.g. just post to forums you already belong to, better to look for other ones that may be a better match to your product.

However, it is interesting to hear these ideas and you are all being very creative in your suggestions.

However, this being a forum for Flamenco, has anyone got any thoughts about it as a Flamenco metronome? Anything that would be a good feature to add, or things like that?

As you can probably tell I'm no expert on Flamenco myself, and I'm not a player of Flamenco. In fact I'm an amateur recorder player, that's my instrument, also keyboard, and (very amateur) composer who has done some dabbling in microtonal composition, that's where I come from as background, and by training a mathematician.

The program can play many rhythms I can't play myself and is used by musicians for many different traditions. Similarly to - maker of a metronome doesn't need to be able to play all the types of music the metronome is used for, main thing is that it needs to be accurate and do what a metronome is expected to do.

Just found out after I'd written the metronome that it was ideal for making the Clock layout, so programmed that in, with the 12 at the top and so on, just as Flamenco players like it, and it took off from there.

So there may well be things I could do that would make it more useful for Flamenco players which I wouldn't think of. Do say if you have any thoughts in this direction.

Cheers,

Robert

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 10:05:18
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Escribano

Thanks, I enjoyed programming that one particularly :-).

In fact another project I'm working on right now, when I can find the time, is to couple that with my work on the Lambdoma music therapy keyboard layout. So you have a layout of 8 by 8 keys in a diamond pattern, and as you press different keys you get notes in the harmonic series, and polyrhythms played as well.

It's like the Rhythmicon but in 2D instead of linear. With the diagonal rows running one way you get harmonic series and with the rows running the other way you get subharmonic series.

So - already working here in the beta like that, but with steady bounces. But you posting this video here has just suggested the idea, I could do the same thing with decaying bounces as well as for this video.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Extraordinary, thanks!




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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 10:11:40
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

Fair enough, Roberto....I won't nag you any further.

I don't know anything about the complexity of the programming etc...the part which gets me is the surreal landscape shown in the metronome!
I've never come across anything like that before. It's sort of hypnotic and quite eerie at the same time.
I think adding any "living" things to the image, like dolphins and fish etc would detract from the complete surrealness of it all.

I suppose if you wanted to make a Flamenco-specific one using the same kind of idea, you could have an empty stage with a pair of hands doing palmas (clapping), a pair of shoes doing taconeo (foot work) and a pair of hands playing cajón (rhythm-box used in modern Flamenco).

That would keep you occupied for a few years!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 13:05:31
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

That's all right Ron, I don't mind nagging :).

Thanks for saying a bit more about what appeals about the landscape, and for your other suggestions too.

And when I get a bit of time I'll follow up your idea about posting to art forum, and some time may see what my relatives or their art world friends think of the idea of an art installation, you never know, might find someone who wants to collaborate and run with the idea.

Since it can display at any resolution, it could be quite an immersive experience on a large screen. For that matter, with it all in 3D software, wouldn't be that hard to do a version for watching in 3D, you just need to make every frame seen from two different positions corresponding to positions of the eyes, if that were useful to have.

cheers,

Robert

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 14:26:49
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

quote:

Since it can display at any resolution, it could be quite an immersive experience on a large screen. For that matter, with it all in 3D software, wouldn't be that hard to do a version for watching in 3D, you just need to make every frame seen from two different positions corresponding to positions of the eyes, if that were useful to have.


Remember the old days when they only had this Rhythm Ace, it must have been hard back than without a display



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 16:33:41
 
Escribano

Posts: 6422
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to kozz

Nice one, Kozz

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 17:28:12
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to kozz

"Eindhoven"



Excellent stuff as usual Kozz!


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 18:01:28
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to kozz

quote:

Remember the old days when they only had this Rhythm Ace, it must have been hard back than without a display


hey, that's much more my scene! i used to actually use a Boss Dr Rhythm or something i borrowed off someone for a coupla years and programmed to do 12 beats etc. No display.

I actually find displays not only unnecessary but really distracting, like having a fluorescent light on the blink or something. I think i mentioned already i got a MundoBeat when they came out. It flashes up the numbers of beats and red and green lights for normal and accented beats but i never looked at it, really distracting, and sometimes used to cover it up - much better to just listen!

i use a digital metronome that has a default thing that comes on automatically on the display that flashes and blinks with the beats but i always turn it off.

i would never buy any sort of metronome or programmable percussion machine on the basis of a visual display that blinked out the numbers of the beats, and wouldn't buy one at all if it had one unless i was sure i could disable it, preferably permanently!

another thing that really bugs me is people who try to teach while counting out loud so you can't actually hear what they're trying to dance/play etc. - just shut up and let me hear the damn thing!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 19:11:26
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to mark indigo

Well the only thing new my metronome brings for Flamenco is the visual display, as you already have tools that can play the rhythms, with all the accents in the right place and so on.

I could probably program them in as well if it were worth while, and if anyone wants it - but not sure if it would be especially useful to do that.

Some find it useful to have visuals, and some less so or not at all. But don't be put off by your experience of flashing lights, it's much better than those ones. It's more like watching a conductor as you play.

But for those who want a metronome that plays sound only - well BM Pro can do that and there's a version for blind users in fact as well and if you switch to that version then you get no visuals at all not even the tempo dial, just a plain dialog with buttons and text. Just won't add anything over other metronomes that can do the same thing.

I also had an idea for the blind metronome of "pitch bounces" a kind of aural equivalent of the visual bounces. Not tried it yet so not sure if it would work. Idea is a continuous note in the background that bounces up and down in pitch, gets louder as you approach the main beat, and gives you an idea of the current position in the beat, similarly to the visual bounces. Maybe do it as a kind of shaped white noise, a bit like the sound of the wind going up and down in pitch, so that it is audible but not too obtrusive.

Anyway it is just an idea and if it worked out might be of interest to musicians who don't like to use visuals much as well as for blind musicians. I can understand, when playing music, some get really focussed on the sound world to the extent that any attention to visuals at all may feel like a bit of a distraction from your playing. Sometimes nice to play with your eyes closed, or to listen to music with your eyes closed.

Here is my pitch bounces wish for BM for the future:

http://robertinventor.com/wiki/Bounce_Metronome_Pro_Wish_List.htm#Pitch_Bounces

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2010 21:00:12
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Escribano

Thanks Escribano and Ron,
"Eindhoven" is the more off-beat variation .

I agree Mark, those good old drummachines are great.
To much of a screen can be distracting, but it also can be helpfull when you've lost track and quickly see a number flashing up. In the end ofcourse you need to hear/feel it, but it is been helpfull to me.

Robert,
I am following your programming skills with great pleasure, keep up the good work!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 5:31:09
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Roberto,

Firstly i would like to express my admiration of your creativity.

As stated by others, i am a little overwhelmed by your website and remain unsure regarding the extent of current and future capabilities possessed by your metronome.

I have not yet invested in any Flamenco specific metronomes and usually resort to practicing with a simple click in pro tools.

The ideas that you outlay in your initial post regarding what you would like to see in a metronome sound great.

Here are some things i would be looking for in a metronome.

Pre set, easy to access, great sounding settings for all the flamenco forms would be a great start. Once i choose a rhythm i would like to be able to flick through pre set sounds.

For example i would click on bulerias and select the tempo. It would start playing and i could listen to lots of different preset sounds from hand clapping to drums to tabla to congas. It would have to be easier to use than a program like eazydrummer for example.

I would like to be able to create an mp3 of the loop so i could drag it into pro tools and record over it.

The audio samples you use seem like high quality, This is great as this seems to be lacking in many metronomes. The greater the variety of sounds and variations on the rhythm i have easy access to the more likely i would be to buy.

The visual side offers something unique. I would have to spend time looking at it to uncover any potential benefits. Currently i find it necessary to detach from visuals in order to find my place in music.

Anyway, I will keep an eye on your metronome and look forward to seeing its development. Great work!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 8:35:12
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to KMMI77

Hi Aficionado,

Thanks, that's very helpful.

I'll do some more videos of the Flamenco metronome to show what it can do at the moment.

Perhaps the best thing is to say more about what it can do on the Flamenco page on the web site, so that you don't need to search through the rest of the site to find out what you want to know.

I need to have pages on the web site about rhythms like 4/4 over 4/3, 4/4 + 7/8 etc as for some musicians those rhythms are the main reason they want to buy the software. And I need the information about the harmonic metronomes and the Rhythmicon as again for a (very few) musicians those are the features that interest them most in the metronome. Similarly for the drum rudiments, polyrhythms etc. each one has its group of musicians that needs them. E.g. Indian musicians are interested in cycles of polyrhythms, and Djent musicians want rhythms like 4/4 over 4/3, also for Contemporary Classical perhaps, and so on. I think just about every page on the web site will be of special interest to one group of musicians or another. So that's my main dilemma when designing the web site, how to have all that information for musicians who need it, while not being too overwhelming for musicians who don't need it.

Anyway, for Flamenco, then most of those pages, though perhaps fun and entertaining, are something of a distraction as you won't be using those features for Flamenco (as far as I know :) ). So that's why I wondered if putting more into the Flamenco page would help there.

I use high quality sound fonts to make the videos which is why they have high quality sound. When you play it on a computer in real time after you first install it, then the sounds are likely to be lower quality as it uses the midi synth on the computer soundcard. But as it plays its sounds via midi then that just depends on what midi synth you use to play the notes.

So for example you can install SynFont on your computer, route the notes from BM Pro to it using Midi Yoke NT (or any other virtual midi cable) and then play the notes on any soundfont you like in real time. Then will sound just the same as it does in these video clips (if you use the same sound font).

I usually use the JV1080_Standard_Set sound font. But there are many soundfonts available including a special Flamenco soundfont RCubero_Percusion_Flamenca which I have downloaded but haven't yet tried using in a video. Maybe I'll try it for the new video clips.

It has lots of variations on Palmas etc. So you can have different styles of hand clap in the same rhythm if you use that one, same for other Flamenco rhythms, so sounds like it would be a good one to use for Flamenco music.

So using those you can play the notes on any soundfont with SynFont. Takes a bit of configuring to set it up, just need to install SynFont, install Midi YokeNT, and then choose one of the new midi "virtual cables" from the Out menu in BM Pro and choose the same one from the In menu in SynFont. You can then load any soundfont in SynFont and play it from BM Pro.

I could add the names of the instruments from that Flamenco sound font to BM Pro so you can select them by name for any of the parts or any of the beats in any of the parts in the rhythm - that's straightforward and reasonably easy to do.

Then could do step through instructions with the Flamenco Metronome or on the web site, how to set it all up to work like that - basically to install those two programs - and then you'd be all set up to play the Flamenco rhythms using the authentic Flamenco hand clap sounds and instruments.

BTW another alternative is that you can send the notes via midi out of your computer (e.g. use USB to Midi if it doesn't have one yet) and then play the sounds on any hardware sound module or synth that can play midi notes. Just mentioning it in case you have a favourite hardware module that you'd like to play the notes on.

For output as mp3, yes it can do that already. But it's a two step process at present. First you save the rhythm as a midi file. Then you press a button to convert the midi file to a .WAV file using your selected sound font for the instrument sounds. Then finally you can convert the .WAV to an mp3.

I haven't given that aspect of it much thought for the user, and I can make it into a one step process to simplify it. Just have an option to save as an mp3 with one button to do it all in one go, it would still save it as a midi file, convert the midi file to .wav, and then to .mp3 - but would do it all automatically - with progress messages showing how far it has got until it is done.

Then - will be able to use the same high quality sounds for that as I use for the videos indeed.

As for easy selection of rhythms - well with the existing ones you just select them from a drop list. It is an easy matter to add more rhythms to the drop list. Main thing is that I need to research into the rhythms to know what to add. What would be the top rhythms you want for Flamenco?

BTW I can also add rhythms with other numbers of beats to a measure, doesn't need to be 12 beats exclusively, and makes sense to put all the Flamenco rhythms into one drop list so you don't need to keep swapping between metronomes to find them.

I'm continuing to work on making the interface easier to use. So - that's an ongoing process. It takes time, and also just to be able to stand back and see it in a different light sometimes which can be hard to do. But compare it as it is now with the way it was e.g. in Tune Smithy three years ago and there is a vast improvement in usability. I expect that to continue as I learn more, and get more feedback and come up with new ideas of ways to simplify the interface - while still retaining all the advanced capabilities for those who need them, seems that there is no real reason why the two have to conflict, I think you can have both.

BTW one feature it has at present is the stereo pan, the notes pan to left or to right depending on the position in the "clock". So the 12 is panned to center, 3 hard right, 6 to center, 8 and 10 to left, then back to 12 at center.

Just gives a bit extra by way of aural cue about where you are in the rhythm.

In case you don't know though I expect you do, you can take it for a 30 day test drive to see what it's like for yourself. I can also do additional test drives beyond the 30 day period if anyone's has expired. It is just a notional time period, you have to choose some time period otherwise it is same as the paid for version, but the length of it is unimportant. So, anyone can get new test drives from me at any time, just to try it out some more or to test a new feature. No need to worry if anyone feels that the "days left" clock is ticking away and not sure if you have enough time to evaluate it.

Anyway - I'll do some new videos and have a go with the specialist Flamenco font as well. Can simplify the process of saving the rhythm to an mp3. Improve the Flamenco metronome web page. Can look into ways of adding the instrument names of the Flamenco soundfont to BM Pro. Can add step through instructions for SynFont and Midi Yoke (with screen shots) to the web site and program.

Can also add new rhythms to the Flamenco metronome, would need research into what to do there.

One example, looking up Bulerias in Wikipedia, I find there are two variations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buler%C3%ADas
emphasis on
12 3 6 8 10
and on
12 3 7 8 10
So - the existing clock has the first version, but I could easily add in the second one as an alternative on the drop list.

I can try a video of the 12 3 7 8 10 one and maybe you can comment on it and see what you think.

Anyway main thing that I don't know enough to do right away is what extra rhythms to add, what are the main ones you should have in a Flamenco metronome, and where the accents are for them. I need to research into that and any pointers to help there will be appreciated.

BTW have quite a lot of other things to do right now. So mightn't do all this straight away. But it is all straightforward and I can do it gradually as I have time for it. It wouldn't take that long to do most of it if I set aside a few days to do nothing else. Apart from the simpler interface, that just takes time and insight, which you can't really timetable for, just do the best you can and be ready for it when you see how to do it.

Thanks,

Robert

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 10:04:49
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

What would be the top rhythms you want for Flamenco?


Hi Robert,

Thanks for your speedy and thorough reply.

I enjoy listening to and attempting to be creative with any rhythms even outside the traditional flamenco palos. It is one one of the reasons i really like your metronome and the variety it offers. I will try to answer your above question from my own point of view.

When utilizing a metronome for practicing timing only, a basic set up marking the accents is fine for me personally. The top or most common rhythms for flamenco are probably best researched by listening to examples of the styles and existing flamenco specific metronomes. Solea, bulerias, alegrias, tangos, tientos, rhumba, siguiriyas, solea por bulerias, fandangos, sevillanas, Guajiras, tanguillo would make a good start.

If i was to utilize a metronome for recording, variations on the rhythm would become fun to use as each falseta can be marked in a certain way to enhance its effect. This would come down to personal taste so being able to bounce an mp3 of a few different variations at a certain tempo would make for easy editing in pro tools.

For example, certain falsetas for bulerias are better marked with an accent on the 6 and 8 and others feel smoother with an accent on the 7. Obviously there are many variations and you could not be expected to have them all but the more available to me the more fun i would have.

Is all the software utilized by your metronome compatible with mac?

I have a busy month ahead but when i have time i will research and test out your metronome more thoroughly. It looks like a lot of fun.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 10:43:28
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

quote:

BTW one feature it has at present is the stereo pan, the notes pan to left or to right depending on the position in the "clock". So the 12 is panned to center, 3 hard right, 6 to center, 8 and 10 to left, then back to 12 at center.


This is a very cool feature. Keeps the ears awake.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 10:45:09
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

quote:

I need to have pages on the web site about rhythms like 4/4 over 4/3, 4/4 + 7/8 etc as for some musicians those rhythms are the main reason they want to buy the software. And I need the information about the harmonic metronomes and the Rhythmicon as again for a (very few) musicians those are the features that interest them most in the metronome. Similarly for the drum rudiments, polyrhythms etc. each one has its group of musicians that needs them. E.g. Indian musicians are interested in cycles of polyrhythms, and Djent musicians want rhythms like 4/4 over 4/3, also for Contemporary Classical perhaps, and so on. I think just about every page on the web site will be of special interest to one group of musicians or another. So that's my main dilemma when designing the web site, how to have all that information for musicians who need it, while not being too overwhelming for musicians who don't need it.



Anyway, for Flamenco, then most of those pages, though perhaps fun and entertaining, are something of a distraction as you won't be using those features for Flamenco (as far as I know :) ). So that's why I wondered if putting more into the Flamenco page would help there.


Obviously you are looking to create something that is useful over a variety of musical genres. Perhaps a main page explaining what you state above then a selection of genres. I sympathize with with your dilemma.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 11:17:10
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

Robert,
I found a glitch in the program with these settings.
When playing quarter notes as subdivision it speeds up at the beginning. Do you have the same?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 16:26:08
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ron.M

WTF?! Kozz whats that?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 17:54:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14927
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Lucerom

While all are good tools to use regular to work on your tempo, the more difficult one I think is a simple click. If you can't play your music to that, then you dont' have good tempo plain and simple.

Actually I think having to play against loud contra foot stamps is the most difficult thing if you are not used to it. But again a simple click can help you learn that. Like Wooten's video, there are different ways to use a click. your PLAYING should imply what the click means exactly, once you can actually play evenly I mean. Anything more then just a click and you are crutching yourself. And eventually yeah, you need to keep steady with NOTHING at all, just the feeling inside.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 20:15:06
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to kozz

Kozz,

Thanks, you are right it is a bug.

What happens, on my computer anyway is, the first subdivision in the first group of four subdivisions is slightly longer than it should be (here I measured it at about 20 ms too long, or about a fiftieth of a second too long). The second subdivision is slightly shorter than it should be - by the same amount again. After that it is as it should be.

To my ears too, the first impression is of a speed up at the start, though if you listen again, carefully knowing what to listen for you can hear that the first subdivision is actually slightly longer and second subdivision of the first four subdivisions is slightly shorter than it should be, first entire beat is same length as all the others.

That's here anyway. May differ on other computers.

Anyway it is somehow caused by the option to stere0 pan following the bouncing ball. I made that the preset with the last upload. Don't know yet why it happened.

So for now, as a work around until I fix it, switch off that option from the Stereo Pan window (Ctrl + 50).



In the drop list at the bottom, change the selection to
Auto pan by Parts as shown in the screen shot.

Will then play the rhythm correctly.

It's probably some simple thing and I can normally fix bugs like this quickly, so expect a fix soon.

BTW I see from the screen shot that you have it set to the free taster. Have you found the Flamenco metronome yet?

Perhaps you have just installed.

Anyway just in case anyone is unsure where to find it, this is how:

You can choose it from the drop list of metronomes at the top of the window.

You will be asked to do the standard settings for the Flamenco Metronome when you change to it, and it requires you to start the test drive.

Anyway hope it is clear enough how to find it but in case anyone is confused, here how you get to it:



Choose it from the drop list as shown. You will be asked if you want to do the standard settings for the Flamenco metronome, answer Yes.

You need to start the test drive to try it out properly, which you do here:



quote:

ORIGINAL: kozz

Robert,
I found a glitch in the program with these settings.
When playing quarter notes as subdivision it speeds up at the beginning. Do you have the same?


Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 22:41:20
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to KMMI77

Thanks, good idea. Perhaps I might put a note at the top of some of the pages saying some of the genres its useful for (can't hope to list them all of course).

Then could make that note into a link which takes you to a page which then does it the other way around, takes you back to all the pages listed as of special interest for each genre.

So e.g. for 4/4 over 4/3 might list it as of interest for:
math metal,djent, contemporary classical.

The last is because many composers of contemporary classical are interested in using any complex rhythm in their work so if they don't use it already are bound to be interested in it or indeed just about any of the rhythms. Even the exotic golden ratio polyrhythms are just the sort of thing that could end up being used in a composition, maybe with aid of a click track to keep the musicians in time with it. Though that means I could add "Contemporary Classical" to the top of just about every page on the site probably. Ditto for "math metal" doubtless.

For other polyrhythm pages: of special interest for:
Indian Carnatic, Afro Cuban, Sub Saharan African, Jazz, Frank Zappa,Metal, modern minimalist, Chopin, Contemporary Western Classical, for details see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm#Usage_and_history

and so on.

I'll think it over. Might well help to make the web site more understandable and easier to navigate to do this.

Though will be very incomplete, just a few example genres for each page that I've come across somehow or other. Maybe add a note to ask visitors to the web site to suggest genres for the various web pages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77
Obviously you are looking to create something that is useful over a variety of musical genres. Perhaps a main page explaining what you state above then a selection of genres. I sympathize with with your dilemma.


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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 23:08:22
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to KMMI77

Hi Aficionado,

Okay, great. I'll need to do some research into those rhythms then, and see what I can do.

quote:

The top or most common rhythms for flamenco are probably best researched by listening to examples of the styles and existing flamenco specific metronomes. Solea, bulerias, alegrias, tangos, tientos, rhumba, siguiriyas, solea por bulerias, fandangos, sevillanas, Guajiras, tanguillo would make a good start


Rightio will look into them.

quote:

For example, certain falsetas for bulerias are better marked with an accent on the 6 and 8 and others feel smoother with an accent on the 7. Obviously there are many variations and you could not be expected to have them all but the more available to me the more fun i would have.


Fine. That sort of thing is easy to do.

BTW you can also use the right click to accent or unaccent any beat or change the amount of the accent - on the blocks for the beats at the bottom of the main window.

In the same way you can also left click on any beat to skip or play it. So for instance if it is set up to play the Bulerias with accent on 6, it is a simple matter to change it to 7 by hand, takes two clicks on the part that plays the main accents. So - one click on the sixth beat to skip it, and another on the seventh beat to play (un skip) it.

Then for more subtle accents you use the right click on the 12 beats part to vary amount of accent.

If you need sixteenth note accents again, you can use the preset with the sixteenth notes - and skip or play beats and vary accents for any of those notes in the same way.

quote:



I enjoy listening to and attempting to be creative with any rhythms even outside the traditional flamenco palos. It is one one of the reasons i really like your metronome and the variety it offers.


Great!.


quote:


Is all the software utilized by your metronome compatible with mac?


Unfortunately no. Only way is to run it on your windows partition if you have it. Most likely to work best if you reboot into Windows to play it. May also work under VMWare Fusion, Virtual Box or Parallels desktop if you have any of those.

All those options require a Windows OS. It might also work under Cross Over which doesn't require Windows. However, I don't have a Mac myself at present, so not tested any of those possibilities. Some day may get one, many musicians I find have Macs and if I can make the program easier to use on a Mac may make quite a difference.

So also, I do have plans for a Mac version - much simpler interface as the idea is to do a version for mobile devices + Mac at the same time. Obviously a metronome is a natural for a mobile device or phone.

Anyway, I need to start from scratch for that as all the code is for Windows. That's going to be a much simpler program to start with, and probably only polyrhythms, though eventually may do mixed meters, flamenco etc. So it is just an idea at present and not sure where it is going but have a few ideas about how to start on it, most likely using Flash, or a 3D games engine, or using WebGL when it matures.

It's for Windows only for techy reasons. Didn't do it using multi-platform code, so only available for Windows, no easy way to convert it into Mac code.

quote:


I have a busy month ahead but when i have time i will research and test out your metronome more thoroughly. It looks like a lot of fun.


Great, look forward to hearing from you about it whenever.

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 23:28:03
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to Ricardo

Just to say, for those trying out BM Pro, it has a "Play then SILENT" feature which is meant to help one to learn to keep a steady tempo without the metronome.

As it is now, it lets you set it to go silent for a particular number of measures at a time, e.g. every two measures, goes silent, for say 2 measures, and see if you come in time when it starts to play again. Visuals keep going but one can just look away or close your eyes or whatever until the sound comes back.

Look for the "Play then SILENT" check box in the main window, and configure it in "Lilt Measures, and Play then Silent at Measures (Ctrl + 245)"

BTW, not sure how useful it would be, but I could also do it so it can also go silent for e.g. half a measure at a time.E.g. 0.5 1 0.5 to go silent for the first 6 beats, play the second half of the clock all the way around to middle again, then play for last half, that sort of thing. Or randomly go silent in middle of measure.

Or could set it to silence just one of the parts every few measures in the same way, e.g. the 12 beats and leave the main accents. Or whatever. Lots of possibilities there, but not sure which ones to add, don't want to overwhelm the user with too many options though could put them in More version of the window.

quote:

And eventually yeah, you need to keep steady with NOTHING at all, just the feeling inside.


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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 23:38:29
 
robert_inventor

 

Posts: 31
Joined: May 5 2010
 

RE: What is Your Weapon of Choice: M... (in reply to robert_inventor

One idea, just thinking about this now, the idea you don't want it to become a "crutch".

Idea is to randomly skip beats. Just set the probability you want - e.g. you want half the beats to be skipped on average in part 1. Then you never know if it will play the next beat or skip it.

Could also do same with the visuals too. So don't get any visual cues either. Maybe the bouncing ball just vanishes for a beat. Reappears at start of next note so you get a visual cue about whether you played it on time or not.

Or something. New idea so not sure how it will go, but may be useful.

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Robert Walker
http://www.bouncemetronome.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2010 23:42:24
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