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RE: PdL's first teacher: Carlos Ramos?
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mezzo
Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr
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 RE: PdL's first teacher: Carlos Ramos? (in reply to mark indigo)
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el patriarca 
here is a passage of an article of Claude Worms, talking about Paco (in french)
quote:
L’ apprentissage de Paco commence, dès l’ âge de cinq ou six ans, sous la rigoureuse férule de son père, Antonio Sánchez Pecino "Antonio de Algeciras" (1908, Algeciras - 1994, Madrid), guitariste semi professionnel qui complète les maigres ressources de la famille en jouant la nuit dans les "juergas" locales. Le père de Paco veut que ses enfants deviennent de bons musiciens professionnels, et échappent ainsi à la misère : Ramón sera un guitariste respecté (cf : notre article, "Hommage à Ramón de Algeciras - rubrique "Portraits et interviews"), et Pepe sera cantaor. Paco de Lucia lui devra sa précoce virtuosité, mais il apprendra ses premières falsetas de son frère Ramón, et, indirectement, de Niño Ricardo, un ami de la famille dont Ramón est l’ un des meilleurs disciples.
http://www.flamencoweb.fr/spip/spip.php?article211
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
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Date Aug. 21 2010 20:00:23
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: PdL's first teacher: Carlos Ramos? (in reply to NormanKliman)
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according to Paco Sevilla; "Antonio Sanchez Pecino [was] better known as Antonio de Algeciras in the flamenco circles in which he worked as a journeyman guitarist"
He goes on; "Paco's twelve-year-old sister Maria Luisa showed precocious promise as a singer.... Nine-year-old Ramon already displayed talent on the guitar. He and Maria were likely to be roused from bed in the middle of the night by their proud father to sing and play for artists like Antonio el Chaqueta and El Flecha de Cadiz, brought to the home patio at Calle San Francisco, No. 6, in the wee hours of the morning after work. Paco and his brothers Pepe and Antonio jr. would certainly have heard and absorbed sounds of these nocturnal fiestas."
Paco Sevilla also goes on to quote Paco (de Lucia) as saying; "When I was about ten, I was taking in great quantities of Niño Ricardo's music. He used to visit my father in Algeciras."
Paco had been learning and playing guitar for 3-5 years (depending on source of the info) by this time, and Ramon was nineteen and already playing professionally. At this point Ramon goes on tour with Niño Ricardo and Juanito Valderrama (as previously quoted), and Paco starts to take in Ricardo's music, obviously via Ramon.
i assume that Antonio Sanchez started Ramon off on the guitar at a young age, that as he grew up and progressed Ramon would certainly have learnt from the other artists that were around, including Niño Ricardo, but that he didn't really learn from Ricardo substantially until that tour, by which time he had been playing professionally for some years.
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Date Aug. 22 2010 11:34:26
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Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: PdL's first teacher: Carlos Ramos? (in reply to a_arnold)
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Paco de Malaga finally got back to me about this issue. He had actually read this thread and was disturbed about the miss info. He gave me a personal history lesson about how he know's PDL's family, and the relationship with Carlos Ramos as well, and asked me to relate it to you guys on the foro. I will give you low down in chronological order.
Paco is from Malaga. He was going to school in Algeciras (high school) so he met Ramon one night playing a late night juerga in the main plaza there, in short pants as a teenager. He remembered Ramon accompanying someone por fandangos and was very impressed. They were about 15 at the time. He made friends with Ramon and started taking guitar lessons from him. Paco de lucia was only about 5 or 6 years old at the time he met him, not really playing guitar yet. Paco de malaga said he also got lessons from Antonio sr, Ramon's dad, but only occasionally as he was usually taking a siesta because he was working late every night and during the mornings. He said Antonio was not a great player but was a "good director". Most of the learning of himself (de malaga) was from Ramon. As for Paco de lucia, he never had a formal teacher (other then his dad and Ramon) and his development was quite amazing even to Ramon. Over the years Paco de malaga kept his friendship with Ramon and kept hearing about how amazing young PDL was becoming, all the way up until his first recordings where it was obvious.
As you can imagine Paco de lucia has kept friendship and contact with Paco de malaga too through the years. Paco de malaga said that he was the one to introduce Carlos Ramos to Paco de lucia and remembered the event quite well. He said Paco de lucia was on tour of USA, and called him from New York. He said wanted to come to Washington DC to visit and have a juerga and enjoy his off time, but was clear he did NOT want to play, just chill out and watch others play. This was late 70's or early 80's, he could not remember the exact date. But obviously long after PDL was famous.
So Paco de malaga organized a little juerga with the local maestros, himself, Manolo Leiva (cantaor from Malaga), Carlos Ramos, and one other local. Carlos was quite shy and nervous to perform solo in general, despite his abilities, but was willing to accompany the singing of Manolo. PDL's intro to Carlos' playing was seeing him accompany Manolo's Malagueña, which Paco de Malaga said was quite impressive. PDL was very impressed with Carlos and had a good time. A photo was taken of the event which Paco de malaga keeps in his studio.
Perhaps the photo was the source of Michael Fath's confusion over the history. Still, Paco de Malga was not pleased how the story got all twisted and said he was going to try to touch base with Fath to clear things up as well.
So hope that clears things up for you guys.
Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Aug. 26 2010 19:49:03
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