RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid

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at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Estevan)

before this thread gets locked, i'd like to inject some happiness in. look at how happy this dog is.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 23:56:36

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Estevan)

Hi Evan (guitarristamadrid)

I like your personal video and I wish you the best in Madrid. Looking forward to your uploads.
If you dont know this forum, Ill just say that take it easy. All this mobbing and yelling is something normal here. Forum members get bored when nothing is happening and then they get together and throw stones at new members who think they are something. Its pretty pathetic, but its just a mirror of real world reality. Mobbing and throwing stones is going on everywhere.
I´m sure that if you decide to stay on the foro, you´ll find out that there are many nice persons here. Especially when we dont get together like little boys in the schoolyard, we can be very nice.
There´s also a huge potential of knowledge about flamenco on the forum. Its way bigger than you think. Even though I have lived in Andalucia for 9 years, and played flamenco in local peñas etc. I still learn a lot from other members and I respect their knowledge the same as i respect the knowledge of some Spanish flamencos.
So stay around. I think it would be cool to have one more member living in Spain for a long period.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 23:57:52

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

All this mobbing and yelling is something normal here. Forum members get bored when nothing is happening and then they get together and throw stones at new members

sure, we always throw stones at new members.
this is fully normal here.

3500 members and i have only see 2 times this happened.

once with RD, and once here.

anyway, ailsa might be right with closing the thread

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:07:33

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

Arash, I wrote this because I found that 6 pages of mobbing was way more than enough. Noone, not even mr. big ego deserves that.
If I was the moderator, I would close and delete this thread inmediately, because I find it to show the more negative part of foroflamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:18:54

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

If I was the moderator, I would close and delete this thread inmediately, because I find it to show the more negative part of foroflamenco.

ok, that might be the best idea

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:23:10

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ailsa)

Ailsa, I agree.

We know more about Evan now and I think there is no reason to get upset if he's said some harsh or boastful things. He's a young, ambitious person, pushing himself very hard. I hope he will get through without crashing, because he's set a really difficult path for himself, and I'm not talking practice hours.

If he feels shunned by the foro, that will probably add to the negative balance and perhaps feed a delusional idea, like there being some kind of homogenous breed of envious 'internet flamencos'.

Problem is, it's proven difficult to stop the sort of antagonistic build-up that we have here.. it's even spreading to other members. I support locking the thread, and if things cool down then perhaps remove it or parts of it for the sake of personal integrity.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:37:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Arash)

In my experience, the problem always starts with somebody new appearing and addressing the whole Foro membership and then proceeding to lecture or criticize, or boast to the group as a whole.

Never a good tactic in any group or organization in any walk of life, internet or not.

It implies arrogance or superiority and most folk don't like being treated like that....so the response tends to be unaninmous, not "gang mentality".

I have no personal animosity towards Evan or indeed any other member here and in fact wish him well.
He has taken a pretty big step in his life when he could have just opted for the safe and easy route of college, then a job...so mucho respect here!

I just wish he could see that his experience is not unique and that other foreign players have taken a similar route.
And stop assuming that the members of this Forum are all bedroom guitarists thumbing their way through JM tutors and dreaming of one day visiting Spain.

I just wish he would be happy contributing and exchanging ideas and opinions here like others do. Thats all.

As far as locking the thread goes, this subject always gets me.. do people mean they don't have the will power to refrain from posting?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:49:40

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

In my experience, the problem always starts with somebody new appearing and addressing the whole Foro membership and then proceeding to lecture or criticize the group as a whole.

I agree Ron, and the Dude has really entered the show with very little respect towards the foro and it members.
Arash´s initial post was fine, but enough is enough and after 7 years of foroflamenco, my opinion is that foro members will not stop posting on threads like this one, and it doesnt do foroflamenco any good.
You may call it unaninmous bahaviour or gang mentality. The result is the same. Its not a good energy.
So I vote for closing and deleting the thread.

The best in this thread is Tonys dog. Its really sweet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:07:10

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Why delete it Anders?

When it could perhaps be a good lesson for others thinking of embarking on the same strategy.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:11:29

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

So I vote for closing and deleting the thread.

maybe close it, but why deleted it? its just a topic

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:12:58

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

i would personally delete it because to me its an ugly part of foroflamenco and its bad energy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:16:36

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

The best in this thread is Tonys dog. Its really sweet.

actually the best was his cojones hair removal gel , imo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:24:50

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

Totally agree Ron and I think very well put. I dont think the members of this forum do generally single people out and harass them and I think most people here are a pretty freindly and helpful bunch even if they do make fun at each other sometimes...which is quite flamenco.. Every now and again someone comes along who tries to convert everyone on the forum to their particular point of view
eg
Only Flamenco before 1960 is real flamenco
Only Diego Gastor is real flamenco
Only Paco de lucia is real guitar technique
Only Cano roto is real flamenco.

Its a bad idea to set yourself as a guru with some kind of "truth" and then insult everyone that doesnt fit into that model or disagrees with you.
The forum like any other community is going to have the right to say what is socially acceptable. I agree that everyone has the right to free speech but I dont think that should mean you have the right to preach and take over an entire internet community with your point of view.

On a subnote I want to say I have actually been lucky enough to be invited to some of the flamenco places that were touched on earlier in this thread. The real flamenco world isnt a school in Madrid...its in the Barrios of Spain. You try going to La Chanca in Almeria, or tres mil Viviendas in Seville or the Almanjayar in Granada or the shanty towns on the edge of Madrid with that kind of arrogant attitute and you are going to find yourself in BIG BIG trouble. You need to be humble, respectful and lose the "I know more about flamenco than you guys" mentality. Only last year I remember a particularly loud mouthed foreigner saying the wrong thing (and believe me it was the wrong thing) to the wrong person in the wrong place and he got a knife in his ribs.
Im saying this not to show off my "middle aged elitism" as someone put it, but to emphasise that in the real flamenco world being a loud mouthed arrogant foreigner can have much worse consequences than just being criticised.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:27:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

Comparing this case to Ruben is a bit unfair. Ruben received the "full treatment", including photoshop and some below the belt jokes. This here is lightweight. Im not even against battling, but the aftertalk is just unnecessary and he said Friday, so that should be respected.

Considering his words about flamenco guitarrists, the foro reacted super mild. He said Vicente wipes the floor with Nunez!

I remember having said that there are other guitarrists who have technical tricks which could impress Nunez, and i got a "

" kind of reaction and that Nunez would be the best player. Since then i was sure this is a Nunez forum? Good on those guys that did not jump on him.

Pimientito, thats a disgusting story. If the real flamenco does mean being an uneducated bunch with just too old world views, then i dont want to have anything to do with it. It is clear that poverty leads to being uneducated, this is the same thing EVERYWHERE in the world. But if the poor prefer to tranquilize themselves with theories of faith and god etc, then they should at least not harm anybody else except themselves.
In an art form, i see absolutely no place for violence. If he got a knife in his ribs then not because of flamenco. And just in case you think this has something to do with a way of life, then for me, it is a wrong and hurtful (towards others and myself) way.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:46:08

BarkellWH

Posts: 3459
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Pimientito)

I don't personally know people on the Foro, but I have enjoyed it very much and have posted comments now and then. As for GuitarristaMadrid, he is a punk 24-year-old going on 15. His loudmouthed, arrogant attitude toward everyone on this Forum deserved every bit of derision that was heaped upon him. No one need feel sympathy for an individual who displays such brazen, confrontational behavior and then reaps what he has sown. Nevertheless, it is time to move on. We should not let such a small-minded punk determine the Foro's agenda.

Cheers,

Bill

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:46:11

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

Pimientito, thats a disgusting story. If the real flamenco does mean being an uneducated bunch with just too old world views, then i dont want to have anything to do with it. It is clear that poverty leads to being uneducated, this is the same thing EVERYWHERE in the world. But if the poor prefer to tranquilize themselves with theories of faith and god etc, then they should at least not harm anybody else except themselves.

Its just one little part of flamenco world. Fortunately, where I live, the flamenco scene is much broader than in Granada and you dont have to expose yourself to this kind of behaviour. And besides IMO El Poligono de Almanjayar in Granada is not more flamenco than fx a flamenco school in Madrid.
Most of the poligonos mentioned are full of rumbas and drugs and very little soleá and Malagueñas. It doesnt even mean that gipsys are like that. They are like that in these places. The rest of them are in general very different.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 1:53:43

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
It doesnt even mean that gipsys are like that. They are like that in these places. The rest of them are in general very different.

Yes i believe you. Its not even an ethnic thing, its the circumstances, the poverty, the lack of prospects... combined with wrong theories why this is like that (ie faith) people react wrongly IMO.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:06:16

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to BarkellWH)

Am in agreement with Bill here and I dont think we were too harsh nor that we had a mob mentality, but were responding as individuals.

Its a shame as I have a lot of respect for anyone who immerses themselves in the world of the Poligonos of Spain ( though note to Anders they are not ALL "like that' as you say in your post, at least not in my experience). Anyway I have to assume that Evan behaved with more respect there than he has done here or he would not have lasted as long as 5 years. I have a lot of admiration for anyone who comes to Spain particularly without knowing the language and culture and makes it work for them.

I understand that Evan is returning home to America ( how he managed to survive 5 years here with no job and afford daily classes is a mystery to me but well done ) and if you are reading this Evan, I just want to say that you will appreciate the people on this foro even more when you are away from Spain and far from flamenco friends, so lets all learn from this and move on and get back to flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:35:30

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

Kate. I didn´t say that all poligonos was like that. Read my post.

Besides, I agree with what you write, and it was the purpose of my first message on page 6.
But, I still think that Tonys dog is the best in this thread.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:39:05

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

i would personally delete it because to me its an ugly part of foroflamenco and its bad energy.

I agree its not a topic to be proud of, but it's the truth,if you delete youre just try to hide it, and it the bad energy still exist.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:40:06

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

It doesnt even mean that gipsys are like that. They are like that in these places.

Sorry Anders I misunderstood the above.

I love Tony's dog too, though his eyes are so human it's a bit freaky really.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:46:21

Phrygian

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
From: Sweden

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Sorry Anders I misunderstood the above.

I love Tony's dog too, though his eyes are so human it's a bit freaky really.

It's photoshopped.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:59:16

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

TFI Friday

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 3:05:55

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

It's photoshopped.

Yes, of course. Dogs have prettyer eyes. Those eyes are from a human being or a pig.
It looks sweet anyway

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 4:04:25

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

poligonos

can we chat a little more on this , is that a term for Spanish gypsies or something other im not sure of that !!/

im with anders , ths is a community, and i think things got a little outta hand on this thread, it means everything to me, you know i can ask about spain, life and pc problems, its my teacher and love it .

we dont want to turn folk away, we are all so passionate !

thats flamenco!

that dog , is so funny, reminds me of a friend with his sheepish green!

is the dog seeing anyone at the moment? poodle or other?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 4:16:29

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to minordjango)

quote:

ORIGINAL: minordjango

quote:

poligonos

can we chat a little more on this , is that a term for Spanish gypsies or something other im not sure of that !!/

Poligono means industrial estate, but can also be residential. Many of the Gypsy population have been moved into urbanizations on the outskirts of towns where the industrial areas are so it sort of works for both. In Granada the Gitanos were moved from the Sacromonte after floods in the 70s caused landslides and the caves flooded. It was deemed that the Sacromonte was not fit to live in and many were moved to Almanjayar. Now Sacromonte is full of very nice done up houses and holiday apartments while Almanjayar is slowly falling apart and the developers have their eye on it as prime real estate as the town has spread out so much it is no longer really considered to be the outskirts.

Re the dog - duh I really fell for that !!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 4:33:32

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

These poligonos are in most Andalucian cities. We have a small one here in Huelva as well. Its not a nice place.
The poligonos are in general dirty, falling apart, noisy. Many drugs. Burned cars, lots of gipsy rumba, unemployed people (or neveremployed people).
But they are also full of people living their everyday life. With the same needs and preocupations as the rest of us.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 4:55:19

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

haha yeah something its the dogs eyes !

ah thats great info Kate , i saw many years ago, a great movie name poligono Sur, so now it means a lot, im off to the library to research this, its very interesting to me .

much appreciated kate

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 4:55:34

Phrygian

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
From: Sweden

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

Hi Kate!

Did they actually live in caves up to the 70's?

//Phrygian

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:03:09

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to at_leo_87)

thanks anders ! beat me to the post!, i think your just interested in the dogs next step!.

one thing i noticed in say the sacromonte is a lot of people just relaxin' which i love , but i must admit i thought how do they get by, live!!

id sold a million items and worked hard to get to Spain .

i guess lalso i had meet many people just teaching spanish for like 5 Euro and our or guitar lessons same price, hard times

and also when i would see the local players, most of them had like media luna condes which aint cheap !, i guess the folk were the ones playing many gigs.

still many people playing beach guitars (like mine).

with the social problems and family support i am interested in having lived in some remote areas in Asia, i was amazed how people can survive and that they have a tremendous family support system.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:04:03