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estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Peek at a new rosette design. 

I have a new rosette tile. It's kind of big and coarse, but I like it. What do you think? I call it the white moth. Makers have done butterfly quite often, but I thought I would try to make a noctural bug.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 14:11:11
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I call it the white moth. Makers have done butterfly quite often, but I thought I would try to make a noctural bug.

Attachment (1)


I had the privilege to see it in person and remain quite impressed with the originality and elegance of that rosette, beautifully done.

Will you forgive me if I report a joke my daughter says about a moth?

How can you tell if a moth farted? It will fly straight for a couple of seconds!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 14:19:08
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

I like it - the design and the colours. And very fitting, as flamenco is a largely nocturnal art.

(I also liked the "How can you tell...")

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 15:08:30
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Estevan

quote:

And very fitting, as flamenco is a largely nocturnal art.


That was my idea, if you can't be great be conceptual :) I also thought about making a rose which showed the phases of the moon, but I felt it was corny. Maybe not.

GJ Your daughter is quite the wit. She has a dry and wry sense of humor.

Anyone have anymore fart jokes?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 15:50:44
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Estevan

quote:

And very fitting, as flamenco is a largely nocturnal art.


Quick witted, Estevan; I did not make that association, but it is quite a sharp way to interpret Stephen’s visual choice.

I enjoyed when Paco de Lucia described (in his “lights and shades”) how flamencos would retire to his father’s house after playing at some country club, and –now excited- would continue playing into the night, until dawn. I imagine a hot summer night in a simple cobblestone courtyard, with modest terracotta vases and a festivity of ordinary flowers and leaves climbing the tattered bricks of neglected walls. A night illuminated by voices and noises, shouting and tapping, then all rhythmically converging into a coherent melody. And young Paco, a keen spectator, peeking secretively from his room’s window, careful not to draw the artists’ attention, until morning.

I agree, there is a “nocturnal” element to flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 16:03:28
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Man who fart in church sit in own pew

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 16:03:58
 
Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

...What do you think?


Very nice, Stephen! I like it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 16:11:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Has anyone noticed the band around the outside is wider? The router bit had a bit of goop on it I did not see and it caused some tear out which is still slightly visible. (need to get a new bit)

I worried over it and thought it was ruined, then I saw a guitar by Domingo Esteso that had a wider band outboard on the rosette and some tell tell signs of trouble. I thought, he did it , so am I. Good old Uncle Domi was a miser about wood.

I've decided to make a guitar for myself and use an ugly soft four piece mismatched top. That way fewer people will want to buy it and I'll be able to hang into it. I sold the last one I made for myself when I needed money. I guess that's how it goes.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 20:46:54
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Looks good. I usually don't like rosettes that look like an actual thing, but this works. And the simple, sorta-monochromatic color scheme is classy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 20:57:59
 
Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Has anyone noticed the band around the outside is wider?


Stephen, I actually prefer a slightly wider band toward the outside. If you think about it, it is more natural to the eye to see at least some widening of the rings toward the outside periphery. I try to do such widening intentionally. I hope I'm not hijacking your rosette thread here by adding a photo of a very different rosette with that widening border effect.

A diamond study:







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 21:08:00
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Has anyone noticed the band around the outside is wider?


Nice design Estebanan!
To see if the band is wider you have to add another picture to see the perspective with the guitar better.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 21:27:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I hope I'm not hijacking your rosette thread here by adding a photo of a very different rosette with that widening border effect.


Oh not at all, I like your ideas and I may in fact steal some of them. I think we have a similar sensibility for not always making microscopic rosettes. My favorite rosettes are the kind that Santos did with red diamonds and more spare designs. Every so often I think it might be good to make a super duper tight rosette just to you know, show 'em.

I like the way you used the end grain Fir to soak up finish and change the colors.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 21:51:53
 
estebanana

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

There



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 21:54:06
 
Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

...I like the way you used the end grain Fir to soak up finish and change the colors.


There is no finish on that rosette yet. The materials are all the normal stuff typically utilized in guitars. Black diamonds are ebony. White diamonds are spruce. Darker colored field is WRC. Spruce around ebony diamonds. Under finish, colors will become more saturated of course. So, there! All the common materials thrown together in a slightly uncommon way.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 22:12:15
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

That "moth" design is absolutely gorgeous, Estebanana.

I don't really see it immediately as "moths", but more of a rich "abstract" design, just looking at it as a whole if you know what I mean.
It's like some sort of intricate Arabic design and the colours are just fantastic!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 5:41:30
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Has anyone noticed the band around the outside is wider?

Oh yes, of course...to, ahem, balance the 'negative space' of the soundhole...

quote:

Anyone have anymore fart jokes?

Not jokes exactly, but a couple of expressions remembered from a lexicon of Texas slang.
Said to a person who has just farted:

"Well your voice has changed, but your breath smells the same."

or:

"Son, next time you eat a skunk, try peelin' it first!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[p.s.]

Whereas the corresponding expression in Oxford would be:

"More tea, vicar?"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 6:24:44
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

A brown, minimalistic rosette in IKEA design. The rosette is one of the few things which can make a guitar really look beautiful. It should not be too simple IMO. I would sleep one more night and think again about the actual design...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 11:57:22
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

A brown, minimalistic rosette


Are you sure you are responding to estebanana's jpg?


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 12:07:29
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

A brown, minimalistic rosette in IKEA design


You might have my rosette confused with Peters. Mine is the one in the first post. It's an attachment.

I really like Peters diamond rose and I'm sure if you saw it in person it would be rich and dark in color, but not without beautiful subtle contrasts between the natural colors he used. I was about to ask him how he got that nice dark green.

As for me, yes well guilty of being IKEA spawn. I'm Swedish partly, and probably that is why guitar makers like Anders and I make good guitars because we are sarcastic, witheringly scornful Scandinavian bastards. :)

So check this out: 2007 Cedar top blanca with a rosette I slept on for a few nights. :)



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 13:13:02
 
estebanana

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Oh snap! I over slept a little on this one too. Better get to work.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 13:20:21
 
estebanana

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

My rosettes all have something in common which I've work on a bit, they have black and white tiles, with colorful braids. They are done in the Spanish style, which means they have a central tile motif, a border of usually black, a field of colored bands, and a braid element round the field with black borders where it meets soundboard wood.

If you are a guitarist and you look at rosettes, but wonder what's going on, there are a few things to check out. In a Spanish guitar you usually find some variation on that set up. Not always, but that is a basic composition scheme for Spanish rosettes. I use it quite straight forwardly because it is very flamenco and classic Spanish work.

Other details then come up like the braid orientation. Some makers make the braid angle point in or out, but they mirror the inside against the outside. While others make them go the same direction inside and outside. Manuel de la Chica did that quite often.

Some of the very best rosettes by Manuel Ramirez were quite simple and composed of colored rings, but still have a loose format of borders and fields. personally I find a simple well done rosette made by the guitar maker themselves is far superior to any store bought item you can find that is more intricate. Intricacy does not indicate a builder has clarity of vision or integrity. It quite often means they have enough confidence to let things be simple and understated as a relief to the overly gilded and quite out of character premade rosettes. Guitar makers who make their own rosettes give one more layer of uniqueness to the guitar they make.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 13:42:32
 
Doitsujin

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Oh then I referred to another rosette. I meant this one.



Taste differs from person to person..but its really extreme minimalistic IMO.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 14:00:05
 
Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

A brown, minimalistic rosette


Are you sure you are responding to estebanana's jpg?


cheers,

Ron


No, I think Doitsujin is commenting on my rosette. Yes, it is rather minimalist. I'm not sure how any rosette can possibly appeal to everyone. As to IKEA style design comment, Torres and Santos Hernandez (and many other designers through the centuries) must have been prophets. They have both used some extremely simple designs as well. Probably looked into their crystal ball, and stole the futurist ideas from IKEA designers ;)

Doitsujin, I am not against more elaborate rosettes, and have done both kinds. I have not developed a "signature" rosette yet. Not even sure I want to--for now I'm having too much fun experimenting with different ideas! I think both, simple and intricate can be successful, if executed with taste and cleanly done.

In the end, I'd rather see more "imperfect" shop-made rosettes than a bunch of "perfect" commercial samples sold in quantity. After all, what's so collectible about a $15 factory rosette, no matter how "pretty" it may be?

Doitsujin, just out of curiosity, do you have a photo of your favorite rosette? It's always interesting to see the expression of individual aesthetic.

Stephen (Estebanana), what other rosettes have you been doing lately? I'd enjoy seeing some photos.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 14:03:36
 
Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Oh, I think I took too long to post, thanks for more photos, Stephen. The "over-slept" rosette will be the secret the fingerboard will never share, except perhaps with a sarcastic, witheringly scornful repair person, sometime way down the road ;)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 14:08:04
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Stephen,

That is definitely my fave style of rosette, with the slanted braiding there. The colors always remind me of those old-timey patterned western blankets.

When I went to Eugene Clark’s shop last year he showed me a bunch of rosettes and they were all pretty much in this style. And he talked up a storm about de la Chica, so that’s an interesting connection. Then he went off on a tangent about how rosettes are like an extension of Arabic prayer rugs and then sang some religious-themed Pastora Pavon stuff. It was wild.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 14:12:06
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

This is the rosette of my Aaron Green negra. Simple, but beautiful.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 15:34:41
 
estebanana

Posts: 9391
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to srshea

quote:

When I went to Eugene Clark’s shop last year he showed me a bunch of rosettes and they were all pretty much in this style


I make mine this way too because Gene is pretty much the one who taught me to do it. I'm still working through the permutations of how he works. A visit to Gene can be wild.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 16:00:32
 
estebanana

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Patrick

quote:

This is the rosette of my Aaron Green negra. Simple, but beautiful.


Oh darn that Aaron Green showing everyone up!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 16:02:01
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
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From: The land down under

RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

There are some great designs here.

I was wondering if anyone uses the design of an olive tree or grape vine? I have always imagined that the green of leaves combined with purple representing grapes or olives would give the guitar a fresh feel especially against a light background. And IMO would be a suitable subject for a flamenco guitar.

Perhaps some already exist, Anyone know of any? Grape vine and olive tree leaves have very distinctive shapes. I would imagine that this would be an advantage in making it recognizable but possibly very difficult to design. Anyway these are just some thoughts, I have never tried to make one. Nice work everyone.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2010 16:33:33
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana

Ok, since the thread has been attacked by other rosettes I will upload one as well.
Stephen, The rosette you post here, the first one, I´m not a big fan of. Its just my taste. You posted a guitar for sale a while ago with a rosette I liked a lot.
Aarons rosette is very pretty IMO. I like the simple rosette of Peter Tsiorba. Its very elegant, but I can see that it might give you thoughts about an IKEA carpet.

So here is one of my favorites. Bloodwood and olive on cedar before French Polish



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 27 2010 1:08:54
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