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For me i have four guitarists which i listen to the most at this time. It begins with Paco Peña, i feel much light emotions in his music and alot of times during the day i need those. Next comes Tomatito, i feel much heavy emotions in his music and i need those too. Then comes Paco de Lucia, for me he is the balans between light and dark. The final is for Vicente Amigo. For me his music is a perfect flow, i feel his music completely.
So this is my list. 1.Vicente Amigo 2.Paco de Lucia 3.Tomatito 4.Paco Peña
(I wrote this because i would like to see other opionions from people about their favorite guitarists. I am sorry if i double posted. Ihave looked but i could not find another "guitarist top" list, i used the searchengine.)
1. Juan Martin (Learning from his books so listening to the accompanying CDs all the time :) ) 2. Paco Pena 3. Vicente Amigo 4. Sabicas 5. Paco De Lucia
its not fair on the others to pick just 4 so i picked 9
1.David cereduella 2.David Cereduela 3 David Cerreduela 4 Jesus De Rosario 5 Jesus De Rosario 6 El Viejin 7 El Viejin 8 Ramon Jimenez 9 Ramon Jimenez
did i mention david cereduella ?..when this guy finally puts his solo album out it will be the biggest thing in the world
but most of the time i listen to cante..very very rarely to guitar albums...unless i am hunting for ideas or falsetas to transcribe
the reason i prefer to this guys to vicente and any other guitarists whos been doing solo too long is that this guys rithm is fresh and crisp...imo way way more developed than many of the soloists who have just soloed for a long time.( dont get me wrong..i am not saying the soloists play out of rithm or compas like that...)...playing for dancers all the time keeps you on your toes...and their rithm is always challenged by greate dancers who demand more and more and wanna outdo themselfs and the others
this guys bread and butter is still accompanying dancers and singers
imo...i mean the kind of fresh rithm ideas you hear in this guys recordings is unmatched...check out el viejins tangos or ramon jimenez buleria etc..
Flo, you just did not misspelled David's name four times?
I agree on what you say about rhythm, but the Paco, Vicente, Tomatito are also accompayning all the time in their shows. I feel the rhythm thing is a special Cano Roto thing. Nonetheless i have seen Tomatito just yesterday, and i must say, i prefer others as soloist. He may be not even in my top10 of soloists, but as accompanist he was incredible. Ok i dont know how, lets say Antonio Rey, would have played, i guess it would have been as good as anything.
yeah thats what i am saying...that rithm is part of the feature for this guys
sometimes i see vicente in concert or dvd and his rithm is fine, perfect compas and feel...but hes just doing it to get to the next falseta ( i think hes a genius melody composer...but honestly i think i am a litlle tired of his sound, 4 or 5 albums later sounds exactly the same, if i hear one more delayed note and one more overextended hammer on or slide .....)...i like a guy that can sound like a machinegun for one compas and brake into the most beautiful falseta the next..with attack, purpose and drive..i really value unpredictability and with this guys u have absoluteley no idea what to expect...i dont just wanna like the melody i wanna be suprised too
and for me thats what this guys do...David, Jesus ..etc they go to both extremes...whers some of the solo guys just save it for the falsetas
but thats just my opinion...u know i loved vicentes music for about 10 years...only lately my ear is saying...thats it ..no more..
Absoluteley no disrespect intended to the guys that listen to Vicente...just trying to strike out a conversation about why we like what we like..
To me the perfect album should..Entertain you,Inspire you, Amaze you, Challenge you , Surprise you and take you somewhere you havent been before.....and whatever makes you feel that..I dont care if its Ottmar ..then good...u have every right to have it at the top of your list, and shouldnt have to make excuses or apologise to anyone for it
1. Ottmar Liebert 2. Armik 3. Eric Hansen 4. Jesse Cook 5. Strunz and Farah 6. Juan Martin
Me too. I hope to be able to play just like these guys some day. Oops, dropped my pick.
Stoney (trying to keep a straight face)
PS. I totally get what you are saying Florian. My example of fresh, check out "El Rey" by Jose Merce. An old and classic Mexican Ranch song written by one of the most prolific and deep lyricists in the Spanish Language Jose Alfredo Jimenez, turned into a bulerias. The changes of the original piece really make this a neat bulerias and it was probably a dog to arrange. A soloist would never have come up with this. Another 2 along the same line, " Tres Veces te engane" by Maria Jimenez and "Volver" by Estrella Morente. My problem is there are 2 kinds of singers in Flamenco for me, the ones I love and the ones I detest and who grate on my nerves worse than my mother in laws diatribes. Unfortunatley the second group is much bigger than the first.
sometimes i see vicente in concert or dvd and his rithm is fine, perfect compas and feel...but hes just doing it to get to the next falseta...i like a guy that can sound like a machinegun for one compas and brake into the most beautiful flaseta the next
Basically yes, and thats what disappoints me most on Tomatitos albums for example. Predictable rhythm/strumming is ok when you want to give a solid accompaniment and they need it, but in solo playing it makes no sense imo.
My problem is there are 2 kinds of singers in Flamenco for me, the ones I love and the ones I detest and who grate on my nerves worse than my mother in laws diatribes. Unfortunatley the second group is much bigger than the first.
dont stop there lol cmon give us some names....let us get some contreversy up in here
1. Ottmar Liebert 2. Armik 3. Eric Hansen 4. Jesse Cook 5. Strunz and Farah 6. Juan Martin
i was thinking about this the other day.....dont ask me why
but this guys must do something right to have the succes they have...say what you will...but they must strike a chord with the right people...THE MAJORITY
Surely u cant be that worng if you somehow play something 10000000 people like ...as oposed to 20000 trained musiceans or educated listeners
music is for everyone ...and if a listener needs a degree to understand it well then perhaps its not them perhaps its you....if you choose to play for yourself or to impres your fellow guitarists friends dont complain when noones else is listening because it goes over their heads..
theres no explonation what touches people and it dosent necesarely need to be done in flamenco compas or be respected it by flamencos to do it..
sometimes the most unexpected and inexperienced musicean can come up with magic....and weather we agree with or would listen to it or not..it will continue to be and less gifted guitarists then the ones we know will still some how manage to inspire people and make their day more plesant, or make them feel romantic ...and at the end of the day any music that does that regardless of who the author is deserves respect..
i wish i could have the gift of hearing music like an average person again (nonmusicean) ...i think that was the only time i ever heard it for what it was...this days i just hear notes or waiting to find something wrong or a weakness in the playing
My example of fresh, check out "El Rey" by Jose Merce. An old and classic Mexican Ranch song written by one of the most prolific and deep lyricists in the Spanish Language Jose Alfredo Jimenez, turned into a bulerias. The changes of the original piece really make this a neat bulerias and it was probably a dog to arrange.
Yeah José Mercé has done some nice adaptations of non-flamenco songs, including Victor Jara's classic "Te recuerdo Amanda", and stuff by Eduardo Aute and Pablo Milanés. The arrangements are done by Isidro Muñoz (brother of Manolo Sanlucar) who is a really good composer.
Argentina's president recommended pork as an alternative to Viagra Wednesday
How the hell did we go from our top 4 guitarists to Viagra alternatives? Is this the surreal thread? The existentialist thread?
When in rome...... I recommend a daily intake of 12 lecethin tablets and a massive quantity of Caldo de Pollo with plenty of crema and aguacate. (avacadoe for Spanish iliterrate)
quote:
THE MAJORITY
I hate those people. Flamenco is for outcasts, rebels, the downtrodden, oppressed, bohemians and rebels. Ottmar is what happens when the majority embrace Flamenco. If Flamenco were ever to go mainstream and break into the international POP market, it would be ruined in a matter of 2 years. Groups like Chambao and Ojos de Brujo (who I like because they are only 2, a very limited minority) would be everywhere and all our heroes would be considered dinosaurs. If that day ever comes - perish the thought - we'll really have to revisit the modern vs. traditional thread.
I would pork Argentina's president, believe you me.
Did someone say something about guitarists? Oh, right. Ummmm Paco Peña, Diego del Morao, Packo day Loo-thee-ya of course, and Sabicas. There's more, but that's just four of 'em.
1. Ottmar Liebert 2. Armik 3. Eric Hansen 4. Jesse Cook 5. Strunz and Farah 6. Juan Martin
i was thinking about this the other day.....dont ask me why
but this guys must do something right to have the succes they have...say what you will...but they must strike a chord with the right people...THE MAJORITY
Surely u cant be that worng if you somehow play something 10000000 people like ...as oposed to 20000 trained musiceans or educated listeners
music is for everyone ...and if a listener needs a degree to understand it well then perhaps its not them perhaps its you....if you choose to play for yourself or to impres your fellow guitarists friends dont complain when noones else is listening because it goes over their heads..
theres no explonation what touches people and it dosent necesarely need to be done in flamenco compas or be respected it by flamencos to do it..
sometimes the most unexpected and inexperienced musicean can come up with magic....and weather we agree with or would listen to it or not..it will continue to be and less gifted guitarists then the ones we know will still some how manage to inspire people and make their day more plesant, or make them feel romantic ...and at the end of the day any music that does that regardless of who the author is deserves respect..
i wish i could have the gift of hearing music like an average person again (nonmusicean) ...i think that was the only time i ever heard it for what it was...this days i just hear notes or waiting to find something wrong or a weakness in the playing
i wish i could have the gift of hearing music like an average person again (nonmusicean) ...i think that was the only time i ever heard it for what it was...this days i just hear notes or waiting to find something wrong or a weakness in the playing
Florian,
I really appreciate what you are saying and I think every serious player goes through periods of self doubt.
But life is very varied and that's why say PdL became interested in playing Flamenco and not starting a Spanish Beatles band with his mates!
Or the guitar builders here chose their lifestyle as opposed to becoming accountants or stockbrokers.
The money situation of lots of self employed niche artists and musicians can be pretty depressing in comparison with successful popular mainstream players or mainstream workers..
But there are millions of little mainstream garage bands and pub players who barely make more than their expenses and just really live on the dole and millions of mainstream workers earning the minimum wage for doing a long and boring job.
Main thing to focus on is just try to be really good at the thing you like doing.
ie imagine if Venus Williams had forced herself to become a golfer or Tiger Woods had forced himself to be a tennis player even if they weren't really interested in it, but thought it would be a better future than what they in their hearts enjoyed doing?
Maybe they'd both be working down McDonalds now to subsidise their income.
i have a good advice for you (and for everyone else, who wants money, but who also wants the real thing)
you have to live a schizophrenic life.
from age of 20 - 40 , play music for the mass, produce many CDs, and make enough money to retire.
meanwhile practice at home secretly , paco de lucia, el viejin and all the other difficult things, etc. but don't play such things in the public. that could ruin you.
when you are 40, quit playing mainsteam sh.t, you can even say publicly that you hated your own music and all those people who bought your CDs and you just do that to make money lol
then join foroflamenco and the exclusive community and enjoy the rest of your life.
hmm, ok maybe its too late for you and me....but other young afficionados should think about my suggestion
ORIGINAL: Florian i wish i could have the gift of hearing music like an average person again (nonmusicean) ...
When i go back in my favorites, i can still enjoy the same music as back then. I can also "see" better "what" attracted me, because i am at a higher level of understanding. With understanding comes appreciation (for more complicated stuff). Sometimes i question myself for only hearing flamenco, then i look at what other people hear for music and i say, no way :) I dont know if you went through the "Friday night in San Francisco"-phase (at least thats what i call it ), but maybe this will cheer you up
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