RE: My 7-string flamenca

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Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

I just uploaded a video playing this guitar.

http://s852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/Mike_Kinny/Guitar%20No%206/?action=view¤t=Final.flv

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2010 3:23:15

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Maybe with time it will even out and be better suited for classical?

The trebles are definitely getting fuller and more suitable for classical, but still not there.

Some years ago I played a classical at Pedro de Miguel that was the best classical I had ever tried. The trebles were jaw-dropping. Full-blown trebles with soft and undefined basses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2010 8:58:48

marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

the guitar looks nice, good work.

back when i played electric i had a 7 string as my main instrument, and athough i really like the sound of it, i can not imagine playing flamenco on one, it woulld be difficult with the wider fretboard

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 6 2010 23:59:41

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

As the owner of Stephen Faulk's 7 string guitar, I thought I might weigh in on some of the things that have been posted about building them, playing them etc.

I am pretty clueless about the finer points of luthiery, but as someone who has owned about seven 7-string nylon guitars, it seems that over-building them to compensate for the extra string is neither necessary, nor produces very good results. That probably goes without saying, as any overbuilt guitar doesn't sound so hot, but I can say this: Stephen's guitar is f'ing amazing. I've had it for about 4 months now, and the top does appear to be quite thin, but it shows no signs of stress from the extra string. It's so loud when I play it (in the good way!) that I fear I might get hearing damage! :)
I own two 7 string guitars by brazilian luthier Lineu Bravo. (a TON of people are playing his guitars right now in Brazil). I have a cedar/brazilian rosewood guitar that he now charges $11,000 Reis for, and Stephen's guitar blows it out of the water in terms of projection, volume, tone palette, etc.

On the subject of 7 string guitars in flamenco: personally, I think it's possible to get used to the oddities of any quality instrument. Is it easier to play certain things on a 6 string?..sure. But obviously, you can do things on a 7 string that you can't do on a 6, so if you're into it, why not try?
The Lineu Bravo guitar has an elevated fingerboard and personally, that was the one thing that drives me nuts. Indeed, index golpes above the bass string are virtually impossible. But on Stephen's guitar, I find it's possible to mute the 7 thing when needed for that technique about 90% of the time, and you can use the string in the chord about 75% of the time. So yeah 10 - 25% of the time, you can't land that golpe for a chord with a 7 string, which is a bummer. But you get used to it. Like anything.

On a random luthiery note: 7 string guitars are very common in Brazilian music. The first incarnations (made in the 40's, and perfected in the 50's) had the following string combination: high E and B strings of standard nylon, string G down to low E with metal flatwound elec. guitar strings, and the 7th string - traditionally tuned to a C - was a low C string from a cello. No one made nylon 7 string guitar until the 80s!
Anyway, a friend of mine has one of these guitars that was made in the 70's, and I examined the bracing. It had 5 fan braces I think (maybe 7), but the 3 braces closest to the 7th string ran half the normal distance before then ran into another brace that ran in the perpendicular direction, making a T-like pattern. That brace ran from about the top of the upper bass bout to the midway point of the top, terminating near the rim of the top. (confusing to explain). Anyway, I don't know if that was normal, but that luthier - Mestre Silvestre, making Do Souto guitars - was considered the best luthier.
One of my other Lineu Bravos is this type of guitar, and he opted to just use standard bracing but to brace a little stiffer. That seems to work well too. The guitar is useless with nylon strings, but sounds great with the trad. string setup.

Anyway, sorry for the epic post. (my first one).
In summation, I'd highly recommend Stephen's guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 16:13:55

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Do you play Brazilian music as well as flamenco?

I was watching Yamandu Costa's version of Baden Powell's Choro Para Metronomo recently.

As I am currently working on this piece. He is a monster player. I can't figure what tuning he has on the 7th string on the video. It appears to be D.

What tuning do you use on this 7 string flamenca?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 17:18:36

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Choro para metronomo is a bitch. And Yamandu kills it. I haven't listened to that version in a while and don't have speakers at the moment, so I'm not sure about the tuning.
Personally I do play mostly brazilian music. I tune to C
on the 7th string about 90 percent of the time and tune to B or A occasionally. I like B po arriba, and C por medio if playing flamenco. Generally I think a low A is too low, but that's just me. I'd love to hear what Gerardo Nunez could do with a 7 string. He has some of those arrangements where he tunes the low E down to B and you can hear that the string has intonation problems. He'd be all set on a 7!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 19:04:31

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to turnermoran)

I agree that choro is a tough one. Don't know if I will ever get it up to speed but it's a great piece and is very good for the right hand. I play a few of Powell's pieces.

Y.Costa is just one of many Brazilians who impress me with their technique and so many of them use their right hand as a flamenco player would. Even their sitting position is the way the modern flamencos hold the guitar. Of course the Brazilians have held their guitars in that manner for a long time.

For those here on the foro who haven't seen Y.Costa and some of the other great Brazilian players, it's worth a visit to Youtube to see these guys who have technique that rival Paco, Gerardo, Tomatito etc.

Here's another guy that I like, Alessandro Penezzi, who uses a flamenco guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 19:48:09

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Penezzi is a freak!! And I mean that in the best way!! He's a friend of mine, and I've studied with him a bunch in brazil. I asked about the tap plate on his guitar when I met him. And he says, "flamenco? Sure! Do you know this one?"... And starts playing La Barrosa flawlessly. He also plays flute, mandolin and cavaquinho all at a virtuoso level. Crazy. If you want to see some group craziness involving Penezzi check out "16 maoes" on YouTube.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 20:12:15

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to turnermoran)

Wow, it's cool that you know Alessandro. Have you spent a lot of time in Brazil?
I will have to check out the performance you mentioned. His version of Sons de Carillhoes is really wild.

Here's a Brazilian who plays flamenco, Fernando de la Rua.

And Murillo Daros, also from Brazil who is pursuing a flamenco career.

I also feel that many contemporary flamenco guitarists must listen to Brazilian music, and some of the chords and harmonies have found their way into todays flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 7:41:24

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to ngiorgio)

I've only been to Brazil 3 times, never more than a month at a time, so no, I haven't spent a lot of time there.

If anyone is curious about Alessandro Penezzi, there's a ton of YouTube videos of him going off on guitar. Here's a personal fave:

And then I just found this one of him playing cavaquinho and flute in the same choro:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 21:42:43

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Penezzi is quite a musician.

I have seen a number of videos of Rafael Rabello, but don't know the story. What happened to him?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 6:13:31

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to ngiorgio)

Raphael: genius prodigy (first recording w/ Os Carioquinhas at age 14 I think), elevated guitar (and 7 string guitar) to new heights/visibility. Got in a serious car crash in his 20's. Received blood transfusion. Got bad blood in the transfusion that he contracted HIV+ from. Fell into terrible self destructive cycle of drinking and cocaine due to depression from becoming HIV+. Died in his early 30's as a result. Terrible tragedy.
Has a couple instances of trying to fuse flamenco w/ brazilian music, i.g. recorded w/ Paco as guest on his tribute to Jobim album. They recorded just one cut: Samba do Aviao. The record is called Todos os Tons.

Raphael is sort of the Paco of Brazilian music. Which would make Yamandu something of the Vicente Amigo. (although that's a bit arbitrary to say...)

Side bar: Raphael's sisters are still active musicians on the choro/samba scene. Sister Amelia is a great vocalist, and other sister Luciana is a standout cavaquinho player who co-owns a label (Acari records) with guitarist Mauricio Carrilho.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:14:17

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Sad story. He was something special.

I wonder of any Foro members play or appreciate Brazilian music?

What do you think of Nelson Faria? I have one of his books. Great stuff.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 9:44:15

turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

I don't know much about Nelson as a player. I heard him on one album with Paulo Moura playing elec.guitar.
If you like that book you might want to try getting a copy of Marcos Peirera's book "Ritmos Brasileiros"
I think it's much better. At least twice the amount of styles and examples. However it's all in Portuguese, and is almost impossible to find in the US. If you like, I can put you touch w Marcos' manager who can get you a copy, and you can pay w PayPal.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 8:29:32

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: My 7-string flamenca (in reply to turnermoran)

Here's Faria on nylon.

I'm still not finished with N.Faria's book. :-) Thanks for the offer, but I've got more material than I need in that area at the moment. I like Perreira's playing quite a lot, and it must be a terrific book. Surprised it is not published in English as well.

I am searching for an arrangement of Jobim's Luiza. Any suggestions?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 8:45:00