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Seriously though, it's easy to see how insignificant the human race actually is in the grand scheme of the universe. That doesn't make life worthless from our perspective, of course we need to live our lives to the fullest. I sure do, and will continue to do so until my last dying breath. I simply don't want to give the wrong impression in saying that if Earth were destroyed tomorrow, it ultimately would not matter.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
thanks for that.
but i have to admit, whenever i see such videos and whenever i think about such things (and this is really quite often), somehow i become very depressive.
but at the same time, it is so fascinating and the curiosity is just too big.
btw, you might want to have a more detailed journey to the edge of the universe here ;-)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kovachian Seriously though, it's easy to see how insignificant the human race actually is in the grand scheme of the universe. That doesn't make life worthless from our perspective, of course we need to live our lives to the fullest. I sure do, and will continue to do so until my last dying breath. I simply don't want to give the wrong impression in saying that if Earth were destroyed tomorrow, it ultimately would not matter.
Such view is based on the angst of not being able to "control" or influence the universe. Like if something happens on an astronomic scale, we are all dead. Yeah, but humans cant even control the weather on earth or atoms...
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to XXX)
Our destiny if we are to acheive it before we exit stage right is to leave our solar system and populate the stars.
I recall reading somewhere the stages of human evolution iirc - control our environment, control our planet, control our solar system, control our galaxy, control our universe. We already control our environment, we are getting within a few hundred years of full planetary control. Perhaps millions of years from controlling our solar system, perhaps not...
Posts: 15674
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to cathulu)
Well atoms, we can at least split em...creating some beautiful death and destruction and or leaving some nice radioactive waste that we can't handle or store. Environmental control....solar system control???? Sorry, some people can't even drive a car. I think we are along way from controlling anything in the universe, much less ourselves.
But we HAVE invented plastic, which does not naturally occur in the universe. As George Carlin once said, our purpose for the universe always was to create non biodegradeable plastic and styrofoam....Then we can become extinct as all other animals that ever lived have BUT will have left a little trace of our important existence.
Seriously, regarding interstellar travel, most people don't understand how spread out things are in space. Sort of like the "if the tree falls in the forrest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?".... if we actually DO travel to the stars, at relativistic speeds or with multigenerational ships, it doesn't really matter to the human race on earth. Only the group of travelers have the experience. We would have to take the entire human race on the trip for it to really matter. And it would be kind of a boring un eventful life long trip, traveling for years just to see some dead local planets. Luckily, we have our imaginations and can "fly" through space with simulations like above posts. A beautiful impossible trip in our minds brought to life on the computer screen, that is the truly amazing accomplishment of humans IMO. But there are limitations and/or consequences to what we can actually do in the physical world.
Meanwhile, it is nice to be here enjoying flamenco for a little while.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
well, evenually we must leave this planet (in about 6 billion years), whether we want or not. because the sun will die and so our planet and so we all would die (if we haven't killed ourselves until that time by splitting too many atoms though), if we would just play flamenco guitar the whole time.
but i think traveling with speed of light is not very promising, considering the crazy distances in the universe and the other problems.
i think something like a wormhole / a shortcut in space and time is required.
or we could built a time machine, and travel back in time (like 6 or more billion years back), and stay on earth. like my grand grand grand grand....child would say hello to me
in 6 billion years, we humans are not humans anymore but some kind of cyborgs or we have fully replaced ourselves with robots. and these robots could survive and save our DNA (if we want it to be saved) and make long journeys without any problem (we could build thousands of ships who would travel in all possible directions for million years), then, if any of them would find a new place to live, they would wake up from the "robot sleep" , and reactivate our DNA.
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Arash)
Hey Arash, good finds, watched a couple while having my coffee. When I'm watching those programmes I'm often really amazed by the graphics - fabulous to look at. Probably much prettier than the reality!
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Arash)
Those videos are phenomenal. Its is always good to feel humble again and that it is hard to grasp the size of the universe (if it is measured in size/time as we know it).
What lies ahead for us humans is in my opinion a way overated question, we are just humans, not even close to the survival skills of a bacteria. But thats all in the way how you define live. Is it survival or enjoyment?
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
Great videos. Does anyone remember one of the first of those types of film which I remember as a child that starts with atoms, in a molcule of heamoglobin, in a blood cell, in a mosquito bite, on the arm of a boy, in a boat on a lake etc...until the end of the universe? I'd like to see it again.
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Pimientito)
quote:
Does anyone remember one of the first of those types of film which I remember as a child that starts with atoms, in a molcule of heamoglobin, in a blood cell, in a mosquito bite, on the arm of a boy, in a boat on a lake etc...until the end of the universe?
I remember a few of them but cant recall there names yet...I'll have a look....perhaps the name Chriet Titulaar means anything to you? A dutch astronomist which had programs like the house of the future (about 20 years ago :)
When I was young I thought these series were great, very educational: Once upon a time....:
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
some believe that the big bang was not the beginning.
however, from here, we are not talking about science anymore , because the theories only work mathematically, but there are (and probably will never be ) any proof for them......so this is more like science fiction or philosophy or even religion !
so this is journey beyond the edge of the universe ;-)
some interesting theories:
however, maybe we will have some proof for these type of theories with the LHC and the new satelites / detectors
Posts: 15674
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Arash)
quote:
i think something like a wormhole / a shortcut in space and time is required.
or we could built a time machine, and travel back in time (like 6 or more billion years back), and stay on earth. like my grand grand grand grand....child would say hello to me
Wormhole? Cutting through the fabric of space and time, and developing the technology and engergy to hold it open long enough to slip through, is quite a ways off from inventing plastic I think. Also, the earth was not yet formed 6 billion years ago. So careful with the dial settings of your "time machine".
The idea of Robots traveling with DNA is interesting and probable though. If anything that will be the way. Or perhaps genetically engineering humans differently in the future to live longer or breath CO2 or something is possible. Either way, not the same as the romantic fantasy of actual humans leaving the earth to populate the stars.
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Ricardo)
Perhaps it will not be humans as we think of them. Perhaps we will be uploaded into a machine, I like the DNA part - to be resurrected a million or a billion years from now on an inhabitable planet.
Time is an interesting concept, what the heck is it? It is not so easy to define - perhaps the most interesting thing in physics. The whole space-time continum is very deep.
Anyways, there is a lot of potential energy in our solar system to do stuff with. Look at all those asteroids whizzing around. And one day Fusion energy will be harnessed.
And we have been able to harness quantum effects in various devices and indeed transport a particle from one place to another like Star Trek. We are made of particles: transport them, one by one, reassemble on the other side. It is a conceivable thought when before there was nothing. Assuming we survive, what will we be able to do 1M years from now? But perhaps we are heading for a new dark age.
It isn't a romantic fantasy to populate the stars. It is necessary for our long term survival.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
i think something like a wormhole / a shortcut in space and time is required.
or we could built a time machine, and travel back in time (like 6 or more billion years back), and stay on earth. like my grand grand grand grand....child would say hello to me
Wormhole? Cutting through the fabric of space and time, and developing the technology and engergy to hold it open long enough to slip through, is quite a ways off from inventing plastic I think. Also, the earth was not yet formed 6 billion years ago. So careful with the dial settings of your "time machine".
The idea of Robots traveling with DNA is interesting and probable though. If anything that will be the way. Or perhaps genetically engineering humans differently in the future to live longer or breath CO2 or something is possible. Either way, not the same as the romantic fantasy of actual humans leaving the earth to populate the stars.
Ricardo
well, yes but that would be if you travel back now. i am talking about traveling back in time, IN about 6 billion years (shortly before the earth is going to be destroyed).
so the destination and time of arrival, would be now. and not 6 billion years B.C. (where there was no earth)
and regarding impossible technologies:
if you would have asked a caveman some thousand years ago, what he thinks about the general theory of relativity of einstein, you would probably just be clubbed and after that cooked and eaten.
and this was just few thousand years ago.
so what will be in million or even billion years from now?
the humans (if they are still humans) would not even be able to communicate with us, not to mention that we would not understand anything about their technologies.
it would be like if i would want to talk to a dog and explain my thoughts to him.
people need to think beyond actual conditions. this is our mistake, when we talk about these things.
i don't think that in some billion years, things that we are talking about (like wormholes or such things), would be a big deal.
but i agree that we have to forget all the romantic fantasies. it would probably be more like horror science fiction.
btw, do you think that in 6 billion years, flamenco is still existing ? i am sure it will. but maybe with much more complex compas.
Posts: 6444
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to cathulu)
quote:
We are made of particles: transport them, one by one, reassemble on the other side.
I heard we did that with a photon of light but that there is not enough storage available on earth (yet) to disassemble and store the particles of a single human being.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Escribano
quote:
We are made of particles: transport them, one by one, reassemble on the other side.
I heard we did that with a photon of light but that there is not enough storage available on earth (yet) to disassemble and store the particles of a single human being.
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Arash)
quote:
well, yes but that would be if you travel back now. i am talking about traveling back in time, IN about 6 billion years (shortly before the earth is going to be destroyed).
so the destination and time of arrival, would be now. and not 6 billion years B.C. (where there was no earth)
Arash, that would mean folks from the future are here just now walking amongst us daily. Bill Gates and co?
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Jim Opfer)
quote:
that would mean folks from the future are here just now walking amongst us daily
… or maybe... the folks from the future have no desire to visit these dark ages.
Maybe some are riding with Ghengis Kahn across the Mongol expanse, some are watching the Pyramids being built under the Egyptian sun, a few are at the stadium in Madrid, watching Italy beat Germany in the year of our lord 1982.
Happy new year dear Jim, it’s always good to see your posts.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Jim Opfer)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer
quote:
well, yes but that would be if you travel back now. i am talking about traveling back in time, IN about 6 billion years (shortly before the earth is going to be destroyed).
so the destination and time of arrival, would be now. and not 6 billion years B.C. (where there was no earth)
Arash, that would mean folks from the future are here just now walking amongst us daily. Bill Gates and co?
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to kovachian)
So sad that we arent able to find out the exact answers to all these open questions about space, when it began, what was before, what is outside of the universe etc. ... That makes this science to a religion.
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Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
So sad that we arent able to find out the exact answers to all these open questions about space, when it began, what was before, what is outside of the universe etc. ... That makes this science to a religion.
I think we are all to scared and closed minded to work out what is really going on. We have a tendency to avoid or ignore certain information, especially when accepting it could result in altering our understanding of reality, or lifestyles. Many people seem satisfied with the information they attain through the main stream media but i am glad that that seems to be slowly changing.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: All we are is dust in the wind. (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
So sad that we arent able to find out the exact answers to all these open questions about space, when it began, what was before, what is outside of the universe etc. ... That makes this science to a religion.
well, i think on the one hand, yes, its depressing that we don't know the answer to all questions, but on the other hand its vital for us that we don't have the answer to all possible questions. this situation drives human beeings forward and is directly connected with human curiosity which always needs to be satisfied. if there would be no more unanswered questions, humans will fall in to a deep hole, stop to develop, and ultimately die.
second, there will be never a time, where all questions would be answered. even if we should find out, who or what caused and started the known universe, we have to ask who or what created the first "who or what" and so on and so on.....
or, what is "outside" the universe ? if there should be any "outside", then you have to ask what is outside of that outside, and so on and so on.....
or what was before the big bang (which of course is a bit problematic, because big bang started the time itself acc. many sicientists) ? however, if there should be time before big bang, if you find out, then again, what was before the before ? and so on
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