Early birthday present

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Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

Early birthday present

About eight months ago I placed an order with Jeff Sigurdson of Canada for a new East Indian Negra. I had no idea it was on its way, but arrived on my doorstep last Friday.

Jeff builds an outstanding guitar at an incredible price. Jeff prices his guitars based on the level of woods he uses and the extras you want. Jeff built mine with a German spruce top. I also wanted mitered (two tone) perfling and French polished top that all adds to his time in building. Jeff's workmanship is outstanding. I paid Jeff $2,200 (US), which is a true bargain. I'm telling you, I own a $7,000 Tezanos Perez negra that isn't much better IMO (and it's outstanding).

But the best part is how it sounds and plays. Jeff has been able to build a negra that has that great blanca edge to it. I am very critical of most negras. As far as I am concerned most of them sound like classicles with tap plates on them. Not this one. When I got it, the action was a bit high and had strings like wire on it. I built a new ivory saddle (don't get excited. it's pre ban) and put a set of Corrum basses and Alliance trebles on. Jeff has done his homework on how a flamenco should sound and play. The neck is flat with a very comfortable profile.

Now the negatives. So far the trebles aren't quite there yet, but it's a brand new guitar and should improve over time.

All and all, an outstanding guitar at an almost to good to be true price and you can save a few bucks by cutting back on the goodies. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend him. Here is his web site: http://www.sigurdsonguitars.com/

And it keeps getting better. My Aaron Green blanca is due any time now as well!

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2004 21:57:22

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

I keep telling everybody that Jeff builds an excellent flamenco guitar.

NOW will people believe me???

Patrick, give it time, the trebles will really brighten up in a few months. It took my blanca about 6 months or more of regular playing to truly open up. Once it did, it DEFINITELY did!!! Everything became louder and the tone changed a bit, everything had more punch to it. Mine became really bright and the basses acquired more punch along with the increased volume. The end result was a very cool sounding guitar.

I mentioned previously in another post that one of Jeff's guitars, a "blangra" (combination of blanca and negra) had the best tone of any guitar I've heard and played (and I played that one along side a '71 Faustino Conde, Reyes Sr. and Hijo, Conde A26....no joke). Jeff has figured out something special. I too had my set up changed (lowered).

So, everybody, at least consider Jeff Sigurdson when you're looking at getting a new guitar, he really does make a fantastic guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2004 22:19:35

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

Patrick, give it time, the trebles will really brighten up in a few months

Jamey,

I agree. After all it is new and needs to settle in. It’s really a fun guitar to play. I remember you saying you had played Rudy's along side his world-class guitars. As far as I'm concerned, people should jump on his list before he gets his prices up where they should be (now that I have mine)!

The problem is, people equate price with quality. If they pay $6,000 they think it will be better than a $2,000 guitar. It just isn’t always the case.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2004 23:19:04

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Well, more and more people are ordering guitars from Jeff. Jeff and Rudy often collaborate on the guitars that Rudy orders from him and Rudy does a lot of "coaching" in terms of design features, dimensions etc. (all based upon the incredible collection of guitars that Rudy has owned and sold over the years). Jeff's use of 12 hole tie blocks on all of his guitars is a result of Rudy's urging, that along with break angles etc. Now Jeff is closely studying all of the old masters' plans and techniques (he told me the other day that he's building a Barbero replica for a customer). He also isn't afraid to experiment with new ideas (hidden triple reinforced ebony and graphite neck supports so the neck won't/can't warp or bow over time). You should see the artistry he produces in some of his guitars with inlaid mother-of-pearl, simply stunning.

I wish him the best of success, but at the same time I'm hoping he sort of stays a not-so-well kept secret long enough so that I can still afford a peg head negra from him some time down the road.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 3:04:12

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Jamey)

Jamey,

quote:

"blangra"

New one for me, what exactly is it?On a totally unrelated note, I remember seeing a picture of a 'Liger' Huge bloody thing with jaws bigger than a man's head.

Just curious.

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 16:36:38

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Jim,

One half of the back is Rosewood and the other Cypress. The sides are the opposite.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 18:17:33

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

A liger is the sterile offspring of a tiger and lion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 19:44:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

So, would it be safe to say that better to buy a guitar from Jeff or Aaron than from Spain?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 20:06:43

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I think that depends upon where you live.
Anders has often said that there are excellent builders in Granada that are not well known and make great guitars at low prices (relatively). I suppose where you are, what shipping/insurance costs, tarifs, duties etc. are imposed based on origin and destination can effect cost.

Aaron is creating a huge buzz in the U.S. and Jeff is just now starting to turn heads and do the same so either are more than worthy of your hard earned money but both will likely start charging more over the next couple of years. Both are perfectly open to suggestions and new ideas and both are extremely meticulous in their work and detail. In both cases I think they set up their guitars fairly standard so you'd want to have a good set up job done (lower the saddle, restring with preferred strings etc.).

With Jeff's "studio" guitars, they are still fully handmade, he still picks the best woods in the class he's building for, and uses very thinly applied lacquer instead of French polish. (DeVoe does this as well). The only thing I'm going to do with my guitar is change to more pricey tuners some time down the road (they are fine right now but when they start to go I'll swap them for better ones).

I think Aaron's start out a little higher priced that Jeff's but that may be due to him possibly building guitars a little higher than student level and up whereas Jeff builds entry level up to concert professional. I could be wrong, you'd have to check with Aaron. I think they both will pretty much build whatever you want.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 20:59:51

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Mike,

Hard call to make. I think a lot of people are enamored by the mystic of a "Spanish" build guitar and can’t accept that good guitars can come from anywhere else. We have all heard of the issues in the Spanish guitar community.

I was talking to John Shelton (Shelton-Ferreta Guitars) a while back about this. He stopped and thought a moment and said, “you know, I’ve been building flamencos for almost forty years”. His point was that the non-Spanish builders have been at this for a long time and could likely teach them a bunch. In fact, most Spanish builders are so entrenched in tradition they don’t want to experiment.

Trust me on this, I have played a bunch of Spanish guitars from the top names and most don’t hold a candle to Jeff’s at almost any price. My Tezanos sells for over seven grand in the US. Without all the dealer markup, duty and shipping, I bet I could buy the same guitar out of the Tezanos workshop for less than $4,000. Is it better than Jeff’s? At this point, yeah a bit, but for five grand more! I can guarantee you that a Sanchis 1AF Extra that sells for $3,000 US ships out of the Spanish factory for around $1,500. And what do you get? A pretty decent factory built guitar. For not much more than $1,500, Jeff will custom build a guitar that will blow the 1AF out the door.

I can’t answer about Aaron yet as I have not received it yet, but we have all been reading rave reviews about his work. Dennis Koster and Eliot Fisk don’t play Aaron’s guitars because they have to.

And then of course we have Lester DeVoe that is likely one of the top ten builders (maybe top five) in the world from the US.

The downside is it will take about nine months to a year from Jeff and Aaron and about three from Lester. To me, it’s worth the wait.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 21:08:00

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

I think that depends upon where you live.

Jamey,

I agree. Miguel is in the US and my comments were directed to him. Sure, if you live in Spain, it likely wouldn't make sense to buy a Green or a Sigurdson; but then again maybe it does. PDL and Vicente Amigo own DeVoe's as does Juan Martin'.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 21:22:46

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Well, I will definitely keep those guys in mind for my next guitar. Just wondering, for you guys that have multiple guitars (I only have one!), do you play them all or do you default to a certain one and not use it? Or do you use some for certain situations and others for other situations?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 23:15:57

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

for you guys that have multiple guitars (I only have one!), do you play them all or do you default to a certain one and not use it? Or do you use some for certain situations and others for other situations?

Miguel,

Right now I have three guitars: a Shelton blanca, a Sigurdson negra and a Tezanos Perez negra and soon the Green blanca. I do have a bit of method to my madness! I look at the Tezanos negra and the Green blanca as two world-class (expensive) guitars.

Personally, I hate to set around plunking away on this level of instrument. It may sound crazy, but I look at the Shelton blanca and the Sigurdson negra as every day guitars that if I get a ding on them, I won't go through the roof. It's not likely the Green or the Tezanos will be out of the house much. They will stay nice and cozy in the music room.

In a year or so, when I get my DeVoe negra the Tezanos will likely go by by (at least that's the plan). For me, I see no need to amass a huge collection. I know, most of you think I'm crazy to have more than one, but what the hell, my wife hasn't tossed me out of the house yet and I'm having fun.

The important thing to realize is collecting guitars has nothing to do with being a better guitarist. To me, it's a whole different aspect of the hobby. Why do some guys own twenty collector cars? After all they only need one to go to the grocery store.

Heck, Felix Manzanero has over one hundred instruments. BTW, his collection is up for sale. He wants to sell the whole lot together so he can retire. I would guess it to be worth between a half a million and a million or more.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2004 23:56:22

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Jamey)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamey

I mentioned previously in another post that one of Jeff's guitars, a "blangra" (combination of blanca and negra) had the best tone of any guitar I've heard and played (and I played that one along side a '71 Faustino Conde, Reyes Sr. and Hijo, Conde A26....no joke). Jeff has figured out something special. I too had my set up changed (lowered).

I ordered one of these blangra's from Jeff a while back. Not sure how long it will take though.

I've also heard about a "Cebra" (forgotten reason for name) with back/sides made up of 5 strips of wood. Would like to get my hands on one of these someday ...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 12:47:00

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to hamia)

I think one of the keys to this strange little hybrid that he made was that he made the body shallower than he normally does. That combined with the woods (which were master grade) seemed to create a very intense punchy sound that somehow still had a deep fullness to the mid and bottom tones. On top of all of that, the sustain was short like a blanca. Truly a fantastic sounding guitar but not much to look at (kind of ugly actually).
This is of course completely subjective. Others may disagree. I know Rudy thinks it's good enough to hang on to (and anybody who knows Rudy knows how quickly guitars come and go with him).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 14:37:03

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

So is a negra supposed to sound like a classical? How does classical repertoire go on it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 15:56:56

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Pat,

quote:

One half of the back is Rosewood and the other Cypress. The sides are the opposite.

Is it reversible for left handed players?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 18:23:01

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

A liger is the sterile offspring of a tiger and lion.

Sterile or not, it's a huge f*****g thing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 18:25:29

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

So is a negra supposed to sound like a classical? How does classical repertoire go on it?

Mike,

Therein lies the problem. I’m opinion, most negra’s are nothing more then classicals with lower action and tap plates on them. It must be a major challenge for builders to get that flamenco edge in a negra. A friend of mine in Hong Kong has spent a small fortune trying to get that illusive sound in a negra.

To answer your question, I will actually turn your statement around. IMO, a good negra should sound like a blanca with classical tone and sustain. Now, the simple fact that a negra is built from rosewood will limit the blanca qualities to a point. So to quantify it, I believe a good negra should be something like 30% less raspy as a blanca, but have nice classical overtones.

My two negra’s are very dissimilar. My Tezanos Perez being built by protégés of the Ramirez shop is much closer to a classical than my Sigurdson. My Sigurdson is built much shallower and has more of a blanca tone with less sustain. I don’t play classical, but I would believe my Tezanos would sound gorgeous in the hands of a good classical player. My Sigurdson is a great crossover guitar that would fit for both styles, but I believe best for flamenco.

For the kind of work you do, I think my Sigurdson negra would be a killer. I would venture that it is close to your Carrillo for edge, but is going to have better overtones a more sustain for your classical pieces IMO.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 19:07:43

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

Is it reversible for left handed players?

Jim,

I am sure Jeff would do it for an up charge!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 19:10:43

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

Sterile or not, it's a huge f*****g thing.

At least it won't be trying to make love to you when it bites your head off!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 19:15:05

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

According to the Western Zodiac, I'm a Leo. According to the Chinese Zodiac, I'm a Tiger. It is supposed to be a singularly selfish beast! I guess that I am a liger! (and I haven't been tested, but I don't think that I am sterile)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 19:19:43

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

At least it won't be trying to make love to you when it bites your head off!

I can honestly say that I've never seen or heard of a tiger (or liger for that matter) trying to hump somebody's leg.

BAD KITTY!!! BAD KITTY!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 20:07:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Jamey)

Eating yes, humping no!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 20:37:53

Guest

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Well, I have two guitars. Cypress and spruce, the other rosewood and cedar. Both sound flamenco and not that different. ( I have just had a juerga with the negra, 3 cantaores, 2 tocaores.) This guitar is flamenca, not quite as good as the other, but clear, no dominant basses. I use it all the time and it is highly regarded.

Do not confuse wood with sound.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2004 23:45:44

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

It was my understanding that there is a negra "sound" and a blanca "sound." Aaron Green has told me that the woods themselves do not dictate the sound but rather how he constructs it. But still, it seems that when someone wants a negra there is something in more than a cosmetic way that he seeks. And it seems when someone is looking for a blanca there is a sound there that he wants. Right?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2004 3:24:29

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

At least it won't be trying to make love to you when it bites your head off!

Pat, nothing to stop it trying

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2004 14:02:38

Guest

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

And it seems when someone is looking for a blanca there is a sound there that he wants. Right?

And it seems when someone is looking for a blanca there is a sound there that he wants. Right?

Wrong (in my opinion). Most people don´t know enough: they want a Conde because Paco plays one or they want a negra because they are in fashion. This is a bit like looking at the label before playing the guitar.

I prefer cypress and pine. My friend Rafael made me one. I played it for a while and felt it did not help me when I had to play in public, so I ended up leaving it at home and taking the Gerundino, which made me very nervous, because in a juerga, a guitar can easily be damaged.

I loved the sound of a rosewood, cedar guitar which Rafael had, so changed. I am very happy with this guitar which is very flamenco, although I do not like dark wood. But the sound is what matters. Now I can leave the Gerundino at home, apart from important and controlled shows.

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2004 14:45:27

Escribano

Posts: 6418
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Guest)

quote:

I loved the sound of a rosewood, cedar guitar which Rafael had, so changed

He had a nice Brazilian Rosewood negra down there in March and it was sweet. Is that the one you bought?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2004 16:00:45

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Early birthday present (in reply to Patrick)

Sean, I'm having a hard time letting this go, although you and Aaron Green say about the same thing. What I don't understand is why they would even use Brazilian Rosewood, which may cost 10X what Indian Rosewood would, or 10X what Cypress would cost, if there is not a particular sound associated with it. Could you explain to me what role the material plays, if any, in regards to the sound?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2004 19:28:37