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If you like a typical Granada Guitar.( light, trebly and easy to play is advantage, disadvantage is IMHO, lack of body and sometimes a tendency to boom out when pushed in a juerga or peña), then Marin Montereo is maybe the best you can find. Also workmanship is absolutely top notch
That some guitars with a relatively low pulsation, reach a point where they stop giving more when you push them more. Its a bit annoying. It all depends on the player and his/her pulsation, and some players funcion perfectly well with relatively soft guitars. In general, very trebly guitars tend to boom out more than guitars with a stronger midrange response. Most of what is called percussiveness is in the midrange and not in the basses and trebles.
You call it pulsation because the top vibrates more? I had a too soft blanca long time ago. The tone was incredible, but if i wanted dynamics i needed to put on hard tension strings. I have the impression that some prefer negras cause of its wider dynamic range. Is that true with negras? I prefer more soft guitars though.
If I had the money, I would buy a Marin Montero or a Marin Plazuelo. Absolutely great sounding guitars with a perfect workmanship.
Like Anders said, it´s a very light and trebly guitar. At last I played the first one he builds with a longer scale length (660mm). Normally he builds 650.
thanks! There is just not enough Amir Haddad out there. Got any more links? I wonder what he's working on now. Sounds like an acceptable instrument, too.
On the newest DVD version or Rito y Geografia del Cante there is a close up and you can read a dedication on the label in the soundhole and see Antonio Marin Montero's name too.
My ex roomate had one and it was amazing but super light weight and percussive peghead, and beat up pretty bad. 1971 I think I can't remember. He sold to a friend. It had a wooden tap plate which I think was added to cover damage. Like diego's guitar here, it had only 18 frets, which I thought was weird. You can't play entre dos aguas on the thing.
I think the guitars are very flamenco sounding, and yeah you could play it hard, at least the one we had here. It was french polish and very worn, especially the neck. Maybe that is why it was so "live" sounding. Made me appreciate why they like to use lacquer for a lot of flamenco guitars, because the guitar was so beat up and woody feeling.
Well, Ricardo. Most probably the guitar was worn and "woody feeling, not because of French Polish but because of poor maintainment.
Its a LOT easyer and cheaper to refinish a FP guitar than a lacqered one, and if done well, they wont suffer sound wise, lacquer can be very difficult to refinish on a worn guitar, and normally they suffer a lot sound wise because they end up with way to much lacquer.
Hello, sorry for the late reply. I am new here. I have a flamenca made by Antonio Marin Montero in 1971 that I got some time ago in France from the wife of a gitano who really played it a lot in the 70ies, they were actually close to the people around Manitas de Plata. She told me that, at that time, all these people liked very much Montero's guitars since they considered them to be very top of flamencas. Whatever that means. But you see, in the early 1970ies Marin Montero was not the famous guitar maker as today, and still the guys went all the way down to Granada to buy his guitars. It is history. The one I own was made "by personal order". The guitar is long-scale (about 665 mm) and very very light, with wooden pegs of course. The soundboard is very thin, and also the French Polish is very thin. It has a very sharp crunching sound when you play it loud but can be very soft and singing when you play a melody. I cannot compare with the others high-level flamencas. I have played a few others from less famous makers but nothing came close to this one. It is like an animal, can be very soft, and then suddenly be aggressive. There is a flamenco shop in Freiburg, Germany, (Mundo Flamenco) very good reputation; they consider also that these guitars are very good. The owner just went again to Granada to get new Montero guitars. Best wishes to all, jorpheus P.S. The video is great!!! Actually the sound is amazingly close to mine, you see (you hear....), the guitar sounds a bit metallic, or even flat, or sharp, not at all the "full volume" and bass resonances of a classic guitar, but yes, I do like that; the notes are well separated, and the high notes come out very clearly in all the rasgueados.
I understand your idea that someone who makes great classicals may be too specialized to make great flamencos y vice versa. However any spanish maker that started back in the fifties like Antonio did has made so many of both types that it is ridiculous to call him a classical maker. Now, if you don't like his flamencos that is fair enough. I would like to hear your reactions to having one in your hands.
John, why do you bring this old thread to the surface. Just curious.
I personally like A. M. Monteros flamencos. They are very much Granada style. My sound and pulsation ideal is slightly different. But respect to all builders making good guitars.
About two years ago a conservatory teacher and historian I know was asking why we so seldom see guitars by Granada makers in the "coffee table" books about guitars. The italian book "Masterpieces of Guitar Making" has a picture of a Pernas, the Russell Cleveland book nothing, Sheldon Urlik's book has only a guitar made by Benito Ferrer pre-1900 I think and nothing about this very important school which seems to have undergone a renaissance at the hands of Eduardo Ferrer, the nephew of Benito. We thought a bit about how Granada has a place in the history of the guitar but life goes on and there is little time for fighting against the status quo.
Over a year later one of the guitar makers here, Jose Lopez Bellido, had the idea for the makers themselves to organize an exhibition of our guitars, something that has not been done since 1989. He organized a meeting and I took the opportunity to push the idea that we needed a great catalogue to accompany the exhibition, something really professional because that is what will be around years from now. Not to mention that collectors, dealers and the like will love it. Thanks to my big mouth I got stuck with co-ordinating the catalogue! So far I have a photographer, an introduction by a well-known musicologist already written, two writers who will detail Granada's guitar making history since Eduardo Ferrer, the current panorama and the influence of Granada in the rest of the world. There will be photographs of the guitars and biographies of the makers along with the articles mentioned. Although most of the information will come from interviews of the Granada makers, there is a lot of information out there that has to be sifted through and verified. The article about the influence of Granada will take into account the situation of people like Anders who have worked here and obviously learned something and been generous with information and Stephen Hill who spent time in Granada well before he ever thought of moving here and teaching. In looking for more influences like that I have been doing searches on Granada makers and that is how this old thread came up. Now it seems that the exhibition is not going to happen but the book still seems like a good idea so it's full steam ahead on that.
You asked, that is the long answer. The short answer is that I don't often visit the forum and when I do it is often from a search about something guitar-related or because I am watching a thread.
RE: Antonio Marin Montero (in reply to johnguitar)
When the time has come for a type setter:
I am currently working with one who is preparing a book of mine. I am very pleased of his work and how he turns over detailed customer requests; and while being so dedicated his fees remain considerably lower than say those of BOD who´ll work you off in a blink.
So, I´ll be glad to hand over his e-mail to you if interested.
RE: Antonio Marin Montero (in reply to johnguitar)
quote:
Thanks to my big mouth I got stuck with co-ordinating the catalogue! So far I have a photographer, an introduction by a well-known musicologist already written, two writers who will detail Granada's guitar making history since Eduardo Ferrer, the current panorama and the influence of Granada in the rest of the world. There will be photographs of the guitars and biographies of the makers along with the articles mentioned. Although most of the information will come from interviews of the Granada makers, there is a lot of information
Thanks John, for the news. It's always good to promote an interest for guitars, and Granada is certainly worthy of this promotion. We don't hear enough from this location of the guitar building society, and any promotion of this sort helps the entire building trade.
Let us know how you are doing with your guitars. Any particular in-roads to your flamenco models? Are you building in a style akin to Santos, or some other style that you could share with us?
No really; except of a very few excursions into special use of German, it´s closer to a children´s book than to James Joyce. Just a story on friendship, love and changes, spiced with a tad of mafia and martial arts.
My former agent rated it gripping material suitable for a broad range of readership.
( Other feedback ranged from extremely enthusiastic reactions, over tepid ones, down to the furious slating from another author; with all of them obviously having read through to the end. Altogether, I suppose, indicating digestibility.)
On the newest DVD version or Rito y Geografia del Cante there is a close up and you can read a dedication on the label in the soundhole and see Antonio Marin Montero's name too.
I think I know this guitar, it lives in No. California. I saw it a few years ago at Evan Harrar's house. I also agree that anyone in Granada that has made guitars as long as AMM can do anything.
RE: Antonio Marin Montero (in reply to johnguitar)
quote:
He organized a meeting and I took the opportunity to push the idea that we needed a great catalogue to accompany the exhibition, something really professional because that is what will be around years from now.
Nice initiative. Have you planned to publish a digital version of this catalogue? An e-book sort of thing. It would be nice to have such info available via the www. Maybe this could be a basis for a blog version with sounds sample and/or animated images of some luthiers...to give a global access to this local art tradition
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
Well, I think it is OK to answer also to "old" posts. Why not?
John, I am very glad to hear about your project. Please let us know about the details and when the book comes out. This is great news.
Last year I was in Granada for the first time, and I also went to some of the workshops, incl. Marin Montero's and the two Bellidos. Granada is a wonderful place and I love these guitar makers and their guitars.
I have two flamenca from Granada (a Marin Montero 1971 and a Gil de Avalle from 1998), and also classical guitars (Marin 2006 and Espinosa 1998). They are all very good instruments with individual voices.
Granada is a great place for flamenco and guitars. If you wish to understand, go there and spend some evenings, like in the Pena "la plateria", or just walk around (I was there in May), and also take your time to sit and have a beer with some tapas. Or listen to "El Albaicin" from Albeniz.
P.S. Here is a picture of my 1971 Marin Montero (made when he was still in Mariana Pineda), it is actually very light (1250 g) although with long scale. If you like, compare with the 1936 Santoz Hernandez on Zavaletas' site.
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