Recording Tutorial

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Recording Tutorial

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ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

Recording Tutorial

This is for you Doit.

In this video, i use only the camera mic. I start out in my bathroom so you can
hear how the room clouds the sound.
The camera is also a bit further away from the guitar when im playing in the bathroom.

Then i move to the studio room, which has foam everywhere, and is much drier,
and pronounced souding. No ringing at all. Very dry. also the guitar is closer to the camera mic, which makes a big difference too. Listen to the differences!!

At the end, i add some EQ and reverb which i explain in the video.

The video is a bit big at 20 megabytes, but i think you will finally see what's going on with the sound you're looking for.

The video is below....

Recording Tutorial Video

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 1:19:20

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Just bumping this thread up so Doit will see it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 1:38:11

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Thank you so much Todd!

Thats showing the differences very good. Now I definetly think.. the room is my biggest issue. Well... I can´t put firm everywhere in my livingroom... but I will try carpets and mantons. Im sure it will bring me a very big step further.

I have still 2 questions. What do you mean exactly with adding some EQ. There are so many possibilities..
The second question is about taking out some of the middles. You do that in the EQ right? By dragging down the middle frequencies a little. Right?

Ok... here my settings again from the other thread maybe there is also ptoential to update or change something.

I use an SM57 but also have an octava MK-012
The SM57 seems to be very clean and bright whereas the octava records any tiny noises I don´t want to have in the record.
I have an external USB TESCAM US-122L Audio/Midi interface
The room Im recording in is my livingroom. 25m2 with carpet but with many open spaces at the walls...

Thank you again for the video Todd! I will spend the day to check some settings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 1:55:10

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Yes, just bring down some middle frequencies.

The frequency spectrum from Low to High goes like this=

80 100 120 150 200 300 500 750 800 1k 2k 3k 4k 5k 7k 8k 10k 12k 16k

You want to cut in the middle around 800 through 2k.

Boost around 100 to 200 for some bass fullness.

Just use a reverb preset, and mess around.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:00:52

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

i think we also should notice how good Todds "fingers" sound.

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Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:02:42

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial, presets (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Just use a reverb preset, and mess around.

Thx for this thread Todd. What would be a good source for presets? I mean: EQ, Compression, Reverb. I am using Audition 1.5 with Waves reverb plugin. There is nothing that works for the guitar, not even close. There must be some presets for acoustic guitar no?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:05:56

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

For reverb in the video, which i think sounded pretty decent, i just used
the Waves Renasaince Reverb. Just like playing the guitar, you just have to fiddle around with it.
But here are the exact settings, most of which are just the initial default settings.
I inserted the reverb plugin directly into the guitar track. Im not using an effects send or buss.

Reverb Type = Hall

Pre delay = 0

Time 1.96

Size = 100

Diffusion = 0

Decay = slider all the way up = LINEAR

Early reflection = -2.0

Reverb = slider all the way up = 0db (or just 0=zero)

Wet/Dry slider is at 46

Gain = all the way up = 0.0 (0 means zero db, which just means all the way up

For EQ i used the Waves Paragraphic EQ

Cutting the frequency "972" down by 7.8 db with the Q (bandwidth) set to 6.0

For bass, i boosted 178hz up by 6.5 db with a Q of 5.1

I used the Waves L2 limiter to boost the level of the entire audio track.
I didnt use any compression.

Thats it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:20:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Cool. I usually cut everything above -3 db for compression, and cut 200-400hz, but just in small amounts, like 3-5 db or so. 7.8 and 6.5 is really ALOT. Whenever i do that the sound gets unnatural, but in your recording its good. Hm i think i am cutting the wrong frequencies

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:32:08

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to XXX)

quote:

7.8 and 6.5 is really ALOT. Whenever i do that the sound gets unnatural, but in your recording its good

This is why i used the camera mic, so you can really hear what's going on
with just a cheap, basic microphone.

I dont usually cut and boost quite so much, but i wanted the differences to be heard very obviously.

Its normal to want to cut some 400, that is that "Boxy" frequency. However, if you're in a room that is a little bigger, and doesnt ring alot, you dont need to cut that 400hz out like you normaly would.
Thats the trick.
If you're stuck in a smaller room, you might have to build some broadband absorbers which will cut those low mid frequencies down.

You can do it cheap by simply framing some Owens Corning insulation, and hanging it around the room on the walls. These are also known as "Bass Traps"

Are we learning some fun stuff now boys and girls

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:39:43

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

great video. these are indeed "the secrets". very generous Todd. thanks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 2:56:17

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

This turns out to be one of the most useful threads for me in the foro! Thank you Todd and Jason!

Ok, I tested till now different positions in my room. Well.. all positions I tested sounded the same.. I will put some carpets on the walls during the next days.

So I went on and tested all settings exactly as Todd kindly wrote down. And I got the till now best audio quality I´ve ever recorded. But I think there is much potential left.

I made a tiny demo where I play something.

The first part is just plain recorded with the SM57 pointing on the 19th fret, about 50cm away.

The second is edited with the EQ settings Todd explained and I used the same Waves Renasaince Reverb with the same settings as you explained Todd. Im lucky...I got it from a friend yeras ago and never used it because I had no clou about cubase... The audio got already much better with these settings! But I have in general problems with the volume.. The SM57 seems to record with not much volume... I had my Mic input at almost 100% open..but the volume is not extremely loud..

For the third one I used Todds settings as in No.2 and I added another plugin that I saw on youtube yesterday. It takes away the sssssssszzzz sounds of the audio and I played with the levers.. it has somehow a "boosting" effect. The audio is much louder now. I like this version most.

But please let me know what you are thinking about the 3 version?

How can I solve the volume-problem?
And how could I get some stronger trebles?
I mean, my goal is to get to the bright dominant sound of Todds picado in the high trebles in his la ardila video. The picado is so bright and strong.. I love that. Maybe also with the EQ?

Here the audio-sample I´ve made. Please listen and comment (to the sound, not the playing..)

The file is only 1,07MB

Rapidshare
comparison settings for recording

download from the foro server
the audio

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 5:42:02

orsonw

Posts: 1942
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Thanks for sharing, I'm always humbled by the generosity here.
Great playing, great choice of material. I really like these compas style falsetas (if you understand me). Any tabs or clues where I can find material like that to learn? Especially the alzapua and pulgar parts.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 5:50:17

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Thanks Todd, I also asked a while back about recording tips, I can't put foam in my room, but you gave me the idea of adding a carpet (the room has tile floor), which did seem to do some good.

Also, very important, you gave me another useful idea, I now know what to take instead of book...

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 5:58:30

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

way beyond my ability as usual ...........

but so much help for advanced players here.........Every video yo put up is gold todd, be loverly when the ime is right to hear more .

Orsonw Alzupua PDl's Solea , todds rhythm is flippin' crakin, the Aminor rolled chord is lovely (Aminor add9).

your an awesome Muso man.........a friend or two of mine have a similar ability......... But they not playing Flamenco or classical like you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 7:57:05

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

doitsujin, first, nice solea bit!

I made a clip too in case someone feels like having a listen. It's in the audio section.
Ours sound extremely different.. yours is way more alive, mine is more sedated, both in sound and playing. :-|

your raw input sounds way better that the muffled stuff i'm getting from my mike.. i might have to get something else to record with

Your final sound has slightly too much compression for me, but I do like the way the notes are very up front and punchy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 9:59:05

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Thanks for the reply mrMagenta!

I listened to your recording. I like your reverb. It sounds very good. How did you get it?
I don´t think your record is muffy. Your thumb sounds very soft. If you have old strings or no nail, that could be the reason. I´m sorry that I can´t help you with tips about settings as you know..I also have many problems with it.
Could you place a link in your audio-upload thread that leads over here? Let us keep this discussion about editing together in this thread for the moment.

To my record. Yes I also think the third take is a way to "big".. I will test some more...maybe I get it better later.

Todd if you have time, it would be extremely interesting if you could edit my first unedited plain take. Im sure you could tell me what I need to change.. (u_u)
Or I´ll come over to your house and you show me...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 10:19:46

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

doit, my strings are very old, i have even taken them off, cleaned them and turned them the other way because I'm short on cash. so you're spot on..

I'll link to here from my thread.

Henrik just gave a good tip in the other thread: basically to avoid playing into corners of the room if you get a lot of bass.

The reverb i'm using is the full reverb thing in audition. I started with the grand hall setting, and tweaked its size down, chose so that it didn't color the dry signal fiddles around a little with the time settings and made the hall smaller. i'm using 10% early reflections and 20% reverb + 100% dry

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 10:54:02

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to Doitsujin)

I got some carpets for the floor and the walls as well.
I also tried to record very close to the wall which I prepared with a carpet.

It IS pure magic!

Now I am quite pissed off about not having done this before my last recording.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 11:14:55

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Hello bursche,

could you upload a before-after sample? Im also as mrmagenta recording into a corner....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 11:19:59

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

doitsu. i just took my mikestand out from the corner and put it in the middle of the room, huge improvement imo. i'll upload a sample in a sec

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 11:33:25

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

could you upload a before-after sample? Im also as mrmagenta recording into a corner....

Problem is that I've brought all this stuff into my room and that it would take some time to remove it again i.e. I can't povide an authentic sample.
I'll try to do different recordings in different corners of the room tomorrow.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 11:48:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Hi Todd,

Wow, man...that was really generous of you to share your years of experience of studio recording with us.
Even though it covers only the very basics and essentials, you prove your point in a really scientific way that dispels a lot of the myth and crap about EQ and Compression and Reverb etc.

So that explains why, no matter what I do in mic distance, compression and reverb my uploads always sound the same.
It's the fact I'm recording in a 3metre X 5 metre workshop with no carpets and hard surfaces everywhere.

This is a Classic archive post IMO. (I see your post has had more than 550 hits in only a few hours!)

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Todd.

(BTW: Great Flamenco tone you got goin' there too man!

)

Brilliant!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 12:33:44

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

upload a before-after sample?

Not the most decent playing...
Whatever, I think it demonstrates the difference although it is not perfectly representative as I recorded in two different rooms:

Just guess where I recorded just as Todd recommended!

Rondeña

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 12:43:03

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Bursche, both takes / rooms sound awesome. I can't tell which I prefer. What I can say is that I want to hear the whole piece!

I love how the action is set on your guitar and the response you get out of the basses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:02:37

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to mrMagenta)

quote:

I love how the action is set on your guitar and the response you get out of the basses.

Yeah, i noticed that too. Sounds AMAZING Bursche! Im totally jealous!

I love the sound you get out of your basses on that tremolo!!!! WOW

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:28:50

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to bursche)

Then it's time to record the whole Rondeña soon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:30:43

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Hi Todd,

Wow, man...that was really generous of you to share your years of experience of studio recording with us.
Even though it covers only the very basics and essentials, you prove your point in a really scientific way that dispels a lot of the myth and crap about EQ and Compression and Reverb etc.

So that explains why, no matter what I do in mic distance, compression and reverb my uploads always sound the same.
It's the fact I'm recording in a 3metre X 5 metre workshop with no carpets and hard surfaces everywhere.

This is a Classic archive post IMO. (I see your post has had more than 550 hits in only a few hours!)

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Todd.

(BTW: Great Flamenco tone you got goin' there too man! )

Brilliant!

cheers,

Ron

You're very welcome Ron, its my pleasure

Im not sure if you're happy with your sound, but i and many others LOVE your tone. I think you have a very authentic flamenco sound. Even in a small, ringy room, that will always come through.

The carpets and foam help to clean up the arpeggios and picado, and thats a nice thing.

Maybe you can find a flea market near by, and go pick up some area rugs, and hang them in your workshop.

Thanks Ron!
TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:33:35

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Indeed good sound bursche. I remember your upload of a manolo sanlucar bulerias that you recorded in your bathroom. There you also had great sound.... you are lucky...

I think I need carpets on the walls!

Good that my girlfriend is not here so I can rearrange everything! You know....girls are sensitive about the furniture arrangement..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:42:05

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Yes,.. Ron if you are happy with your sound, don´t change anything. Im changing because Im completely unhappy. You also prefer more the traditional sound right?

I think for this sound, perfect recording and effects are contraproductive. It must sound dirty and also a little cheap (not in a bad way. It fits best to traditional playing IMO). Maybe I´ll ask duende for the model of his cellphone. Than Im also set for recording traditional stuff..

So,.. the professional sound engineers from the 30th - maybe 60th had only mics in cellphonequality?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 13:55:52

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Recording Tutorial (in reply to ToddK)

Refering back to the rather large bass boost i explained in my EQ setting
for the video.

The camera mic doesnt pick up much bass, so even when i boost it with
EQ, there isnt much there to boost, so thats why it doesnt sound like a
big bassy monstrosity.

If i boosted that much with an SM57, close to the guitar, it would sound horrible.

Another example of how all the elements are counter dependant.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2009 14:28:02