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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

CAGED system 

Hey there guys when I first started learning the guitar.
I learnt to play songs like guns n roses metallica nirvana maiden etc

when I picked up the guitar again late last yr. I can only rember pieces of the songs I use to know. Granted I only plays the rhythm parts n no soloing.

My friend just passed me a DVD on the CAGED system of learning the fretboard nthe notes/scales attached to an individual maj or minor chord.

Is it benificial for us beginner guitarists learning flamenco to
learn this system of learning the fretboard?

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2009 16:46:13
 
minordjango

 

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005
 

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

most certainly is i think, i learnt same material and taught it also, the caged system is fine,

what really is a great idea , is learn chord construction (the theory0 and the print out some chord and scale diagrams , sit back with the guitar , and discover and write down all the chord shapes, i.e Get say G) G B D 1,3,5 then find the triad all over the neck.

then minor triad , diminished and augmented, then add the 7th, 6th , 9th , and variations, you get to learn the neck well, its a great foundation to have for any style, t helps with improvisation, hear trainig , learning the neck soloing , ITs real beneificial do it while watching a movie !!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2009 17:20:47
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3028
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

This guy took some Flamenco lessons from me...he has some interesting stuff to say about fretboard visualization

http://www.guitarsessions.com/nov07/jazz.asp

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http://www.andyculpepper.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2009 19:54:20
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

It depends on what your aims with the guitar are. Its always good to know what you are playing, but it can also force you into a too limited view of composing. Most often unlogical weird chords and melodys are much better than a well thought composition following common rules. Especially in flamenco,.. IMO its the best to learn much material modern and old and start composing form that base instead of constructing something in respect with the rules of harmony and so on... For me I decided its a waste of time to lean the names of the notes. Im doing very well without all that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2009 10:32:39
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

It's a very good topic, I think as I used to deal with the CAGED system quite a lot. I have to say that it helped my understanding of the fretboard a LOT.

Of course depending on your goals it's up to You wether You want to learn something or not but I think knowing the notes on the neck is essential, it's like ABC or whatever..

I always felt like playing any good piece on the guitar and not knowing at least the foundations of theory behind it is like knowing a beautiful poem on a different language...It may be charming for those who listen to it, but at the same time You don't speak that language!!! Should there be any questions and you haven't got the slightest idea what to reply... and for me I think every new musical situation -playing together with somebody, or acc. dance or whatever-is a 'new question'.

Well it's up to You: It's just depends how deep You want to go in music.

By the way let me suggest Everyone some interesting books/programs that was very helpful for me:


If You want to learn the notes just get fretboardwarrior and play it each day for a couple of minutes! It just take a little time, and It's free.
There's a better program called absolutefretboard. It's not free, but gives you a much deeper knowledge (sheet music as well), and it's a fun interactive prg.

as for the CAGED system: GSM - Guitar scales method, it's a VERY VERY useful interactive prg that helps You learn the scales (using the Caged s), and enjoyed a lot going through that! Gives You a lot of confidence while playing - knowing all scales in all positions, altough there are several things I miss from there, it gives You a very strong basic I think.

Book:
Hal Leonard: All scales in all positions for guitar a little bit different - not finishedd yet.

I'm not any distributor for any of the above but would been very happy If somebody had told me abouth these infos before so I felt it may help some
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2009 13:00:42
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: CAGED system (in reply to beno

quote:

it is like knowing a beautiful poem on a different language...


That's a nice analogy. Guess that's one of the reasons I learned Spanish...

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2009 20:21:39
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

There's a better program called absolutefretboard. It's not free, but gives you a much deeper knowledge (sheet music as well), and it's a fun interactive prg.

as for the CAGED system: GSM - Guitar scales method, it's a VERY VERY useful interactive prg that helps You learn the scales


I was going to recommend these programs but you were faster.
They are really good and motivative. I read through the caged pages and it was boring. So many pages text and I got almost nothing.
Definetily absolut fretboard and GSM
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2009 5:29:57
 
bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: CAGED system (in reply to aleksi

I always feel guilty, because I know nothing about theory.
All I do is developing intuition by learning piece after piece.

Maybe some knowledge would help me=)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2009 9:31:58
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

I always feel guilty, because I know nothing about theory.
All I do is developing intuition by learning piece after piece.

Maybe some knowledge would help me=)


You might want to try those programs, you would like them.
Maybe even you get rid of the guilt
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2009 10:44:21
 
DavidT

 

Posts: 181
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: CAGED system (in reply to beno

quote:

GSM - Guitar scales method, it's a VERY VERY useful


The GSM is on-sale now for $49.95:

"
The Price

GSM PROFESSIONAL is the single-user version and includes absolutely everything you will ever need, including multi-computer installation license for personal use, lifetime upgrades and support. The price is US$ 99.95. Special price US$ 49.95 only if you order before August 28.
"

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Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2009 10:56:15
 
gato

Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
 

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

You know there is a logic to the fret board that goes like this: The layout of the fretboard is based on the wheel of fifths from the 6 string down. That being beadgcf, carried out eadg and then be. The frets carry out this logic one half step per fret as you know. be are extra strings that were added to the system to make the guitar: eadg be, and eadg and be are of a seperate counter so that the 1st and 6th string would be the same tone and b comes before e in the wheel of fifths.

This way you know that essential pattern and can follow the logic in naming the frets. the first fret is f Bb d# g#, c and f. get it??? all you really have to know is the wheel of fifths and this cross string logic, and memorize the scales, and your memory can work with your EAR to name notes and build chords, something that I havn't talked about yet. You got it??? it's that easy. Simple and if you can scale up on the 6th or 1st string you can actually name the notes and build the scales. The farther you get in this device the easier it gets. Easy.
Gary
You might as well note that eadg and be are the difference that puts the scaling system back a fret on the third string from the second and first. In that way you can navigate your scales a lot easier knowing this. Rave on!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2009 16:52:14
 
domzo

 

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007
 

RE: CAGED system (in reply to gato

quote:

The layout of the fretboard is based on the wheel of fifths from the 6 string down. That being beadgcf, carried out eadg and then be. The frets carry out this logic one half step per fret as you know. be are extra strings that were added to the system to make the guitar: eadg be, and eadg and be are of a seperate counter so that the 1st and 6th string would be the same tone and b comes before e in the wheel of fifths.

This way you know that essential pattern and can follow the logic in naming the frets. the first fret is f Bb d# g#, c and f. get it???


Nope, don't get it

But thanks for trying!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2009 22:45:34
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15028
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

Caged is a good way to visualize the neck based on chord and arpegio shapes. But to complete the picture, you need to learn your scales too. I learned the best way is probably 3 notes per string. Interms of visualizing keys this is the best, but technically there are some awkward fingerings. But interms of mental understanding of the fingerboard 3 notes per string I think is the best. So you learn 7 patterns for the major scale, and hopefully thanks to CAGED you can see how to transpose and relate those 7 patterns to all 12 keys. But you also need to understand the minor scales, harmonic and melodic, and also things like pentatonic. Scales like Chromatic, Whole tone, or Diminished are symmetrical scales that follow a simple logic and transpose easy all over the neck, but applying them becomes the trick.

Ricardo

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 12:04:27
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

Agree with Ricardo. You also need to learn the scales, the degrees within a scale and so on...GSM gives that You easily. But after finishing that, I also needed ( and still in need) some more to put the whole thing into practice. I felt, I know the scales 'verticaly' on the neck, so I was locked into the cages. You also have to find something that opens the way horizontaly on the neck.

What seems to work for me is something similar like Ricardo wrote about. I started learning a scale on just one string (high e). then added one (b)...and one more (g) and so on. Then You can go to the next 3 string (b. g, d)...got it?

If You have the major scale, You also have the natural minor (same notes but starting from the 6th degree) and the modes.

To learn harmonic minor, You just change one note.
To learn the pnetatonic, You use the same shape as for the major, but You have to leave some notes.
To learn the Blues scale You just have to add one note (the blues note) to the pentatonic scale....

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 13:07:36
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

Hereby I attached a page with some of the basic scales. I use this for practice. In the scales the blue dots representing the first note of the scale. For example in the 3rd line : the major scale uses the same notes as the natural minor, but the starting note of the scale is different: the blue dot is the first note of the major scale, the blue cube is the starting note of the natural minor.
The same goes for pentatonic.
An empty circle indicating the blues note in the 2nd line, and so on.
Of course there are plenty of ways to finger a scale, these are just the most common I think.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 13:14:42
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

AND I highly recommend Fretboard Navigator DVD from the Lick Library series....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 13:16:30
 
gato

Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
 

RE: CAGED system (in reply to domzo

You didn't get it? Well, get a fingering chart and LOOK at it. It's called 'string theory' and they teach it in music classes at reputable schools. I admit that I threw you a curve by adding the off incidentals on the first fret. And if you have no idea what the wheel of fifths is you shouldn't be studying music, and that's all. You don't agreet with me......rave on!!! And on and on and on and on...

Here I'll make it easy for you: the notes on the first fret are eadg be and the notes on the 5th fret are adgc ea, and the notes on the 10th fret are, dgcf ad.
Simple. I'm not going to hold your hand for these posts and teach you one on one over the net. You figure out the incidentals. It's all based on the wheel of fifths and that's all. If the guitar weren't intended for making barre chords the tuning would have been much different. Now see? You get that for free.

As for the caged method, I think it's a great idea.

Gary

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 17:54:05
 
Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: CAGED system (in reply to HolyEvil

In English we tend to refer to it as the Circle of Fifths

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2009 20:35:17
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3028
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: CAGED system (in reply to Exitao

quote:

In English we tend to refer to it as the Circle of Fifths


Yup. And string theory is a developing branch of theoretical physics that combines quantum mechanics and general relativity into a quantum theory of gravity.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2009 5:25:17
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