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Interesting stuff HemeolaMan. And let's not forget, no compressor in the world can make a softly-struck acoustic guitar string sound like a powerfully-struck guitar string. I've recorded a lot of badly played guitar in the past, and there's no such thing as "fix it in the mix" when it comes to performance. It is possible to combine multiple takes into one "perfect" take but this only works to a certain point - there are almost always clues when you examine the audio closely, as you've shown.
As for the argument/debate/discussion going one here, well if there's a thing there's a thing. It shouldn't be stifled in my opinion. And nobody is outright insulting anyone.
Interesting stuff HemeolaMan. And let's not forget, no compressor in the world can make a softly-struck acoustic guitar string sound like a powerfully-struck guitar string.
Well, I do not agree with this. It is possible with some proper sidechain-eq, but you have to be very carefull.
I am not saying the sound of the stroke will change, as it will, depending how you play your thumb, but the attack can be re-inforced.
HemeolaMan argument finished about 3 hours ago even before you posted...yet u are here theres productive treads up...challenge treads, people who uploaded audios and are looking for your feedbacks ...if u neet to stop the stupid talking why are u still here now at the top of the page when noone is arguing ?
I guess u just needed to say what u needed to say...thats understandable ....so did I
its done , finished ...i am more then happy to move on and pay attention to your productive treads now
Well Flo, do you mind....I post where-ever I want, when-ever I want, what-ever I want, but it doesn't mean I have to
Looking at the timezones....yeah, I was still sleeping, I woke up, posted a comment, took a shower, left the pc on, came back read my other email etc. Who cares!!!
I did not react on the bully conversation you guys where having, I reacted on that sound enhancement is possible in that way....simple as that.
I don't have the status to argue someone elses playing, because I can't myself, simple as that, but I can react on technical stuff.....without having to notice my background....
ofcourse i dont mind buddy u say whatever u wanna say...if i dont wanna read it i move on..or start my own other productive thread
i will assume that whatever u wanna say is because u wanna say it and while it means **** all to me it might mean enough to you to wanna say it
i can just as eazely move to another tread or start a new one if i didnt give a **** or was fed up with what you were saying and just say what i wanna be saying...do you know what i am saying
I am not saying the sound of the stroke will change, as it will, depending how you play your thumb, but the attack can be re-inforced.
You can attenuate just the attack of a note. Yes.
BUT>
As Kubase mentioned, you can not change the actuall characteristics/intensity of the strike. IE= You cant make a soft note sound like it was "Played" loudly, you can only make the attack point of the "soft" note "Louder". These things are really obvious and easy to see in a close up view of a wave file that has been aggresively compressed.
You can see, in my entry file, there is only some soft limiting, to boost the overall level. Essentially, just normalizing basically. So people dont have to crank their volume to hear the tune clearly.
Thanks Hemeola!!! I thought I was anal and went way overboard on details, but you've got me beat!! Ive anylized audio, but not quite to that extent. Im impressed.
Amazing, to see the snap shot of the phase. I wouldnt have thought of that if i were trying to see if somebody punched or edited. You are WAY DEEP inside that bugger!! Wow! Its a good thing i didnt do any editing or punching in my entry, cause i would be BUSTED right now! ahhaha Fun thread!! LOL TK
But I still think you should have to send a blood sample to Doit to check if you have been taking any performance enhancing drugs and thus had an unfair advantage.
But I still think you should have to send a blood sample to Doit to check if you have been taking any performance enhancing drugs and thus had an unfair advantage.
Oh my God!! This is like "CSI SPAIN" (flamenco theme music kicks in now)
I was juicing for sure, but it was only some Frappacino, no steroids or epinephrine.
ahhahahahahahahahhaha That was f'ing hilarious Ron! ahhhaha That hit my funny bone! Thanks for the deep belly laugh.
But I still think you should have to send a blood sample to Doit to check if you have been taking any performance enhancing drugs and thus had an unfair advantage.
Pff hahaha.. no but I think he should send me some of his DNA. I want to check that for any genes responsible for his great playing that are absent or different in the genome of worse players.. hahaha.. I think we should end the arguing about that here. The challenge idea is to improve yourself and Todd is the perfect example for that. He changed his techniques successful completely. Im pretty sure that was very hard work. Think about changing to a left handed player (Or Deniz to right handed :.) Thats phenomenal IMO. So, he deserves the win more than all the others. He wrote that he was able to relearn to play the guitar so fastly coz he worked so hard for the challenge. And that is exactly what we started the challenge for.
There is only one thing I disagree with Todd. Im talking about this:
quote:
You and Doitsun seem to have this idea that there is some kind of "Magic dust proccessor" in a studio that makes you sound "Huge".
A friend of mine recorded a track in past with bad sound.. and an engineer worked on that.. when I heared that audio I didnt believe my friend really played that. It was a difference as day and night.. It was unbelievable how good that sounded.. Or just check a couple of Tomatito CDs, also with Michel Camillo (These CDs where he plays the same guitar..). So he plays the same guitar but sounds completely different. Sometimes soft and clean than very strong and dirty. I mean the overall sound of the playing on the CDs not single compositions. So, guitarists quality on CD is much due to the engineer who masters it. There is absolutely no doubt. We are not talking here about the existence of little green masians or their UFOs.. About this point my opinion is not changeable. I wont discuss that!
RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (in reply to Doitsujin)
OK, now that this personality fight and duel stuff nonsense is over...(AND...I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT START UP AGAIN....JUST STICK TO THE SUBJECT POR FAVOR), here's my own opinion of the original interesting discussion of track that started this thread.
1. Flo is right. That sound is WAY over the top for any normally recorded guitar IMO.
2. The guy is obviously doing "playback" to a carefully planned and edited and mixed track. No way is he just sitting playing with a "palmas" loop.
Ok, I like great Flamenco playing, but I wasn't born yesterday!
3. Where are the mics in the video?
That's a "close up" mic sound he's got there and there ain't a mic within feet of him. Plus there is a good bit of compression and Bass boost in there too.
4. There's a heck of a lot of "double take/mixing" going on there too, like pop singers use to "thicken" the voice. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole piece has been recorded twice or more and mixed to get this thick sound. You can hear it start to separate at around 4:55 where I think he's added a third track with a bit of harmony.
The guy is a good guitarist, it's a very well produced track and I love it.
But no way is that just innocent, "Sit in front of the mic and play"!
F***ing.. NO WAY MAN!
Lot's of that is TWO guitars in unison...added in over the original take.
Maybe Hem can do a spectrographic analysis on that one too!
When I was down seeing Rafael in Oxford, I was raving about a bit in his Bulerias I really liked....and he looked at me quizzically and laughed and said "That's TWO guitars man!...I just double tracked that bit to get a thicker sound!"
He then laughed and said "Look man, records are records and live performances are live performances!"
OK, now that this personality fight and duel stuff nonsense is over...(AND...I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT START UP AGAIN....JUST STICK TO THE SUBJECT POR FAVOR), here's my own opinion of the original interesting discussion of track that started this thread.
1. Flo is right. That sound is WAY over the top for any normally recorded guitar IMO.
2. The guy is obviously doing "playback" to a carefully planned and edited and mixed track. No way is he just sitting playing with a "palmas" loop.
Ok, I like great Flamenco playing, but I wasn't born yesterday!
I don't know. I felt that the proposed "duel" would have given wings to this otherwise pedestrian dispute. However, i agree and apologize for instigating it
I also concur with your views on Borges. Wonderful guitarist and music, but the video performance is unquestionably rigged
RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
but the video performance is unquestionably rigged
Hi gj,
Hope you're feeling better! You certainly sound back in good form man!!
Nah...the video is not "rigged"....it's just a promo video in the same way as those MTV videos are. As Rafael said...just enjoy it for what it is.
There's no harm in making a good piece of work, but don't start worrying about how you don't sound like that in your bedroom!
A good point which he has adhered to in that video is the Politicians policy of ensuring the public believe every bit of the first part of your speech by being true and factual. After you've got the crowd with you, then they'll believe all the lies you saved for the second half.
That's why the guy started off with a full, natural guitar sound and added in bits later without obviously overdoing it, until he ended up with a little guitar trio with palmas.
Nah...the video is not "rigged"....it's just a promo video in the same way as those MTV videos are.
When you put it that way, the absence of scantily clad gyrating women becomes more noticeable.
quote:
A good point which he has adhered to in that video is the Politicians policy of ensuring the public believe every bit of the first part of your speech by being true and factual. After you've got the crowd with you, then they'll believe all the lies you saved for the second half.
Well I trust this guy because he looks like Jon Stewart.
for those that didn't realize, this guy jorge berges was the transcriber of the first two "official" Paco books, and Gerardo Nuñez book ii. I say they all have lots of transcribing mistakes. I saw him in Sanlucar last summer, he took the course and performed this piece live I remember. He has a nice fat live sound not much different than this audio shows...this video is obvious playback though. He is a very nice guy by the way.
Hope you're feeling better! You certainly sound back in good form man!!
How rude of me, I did not even thank you all for the kind wishes of prompt recovery. I do now: I appreciated your such posts so much. I had internet at the hospital and ForoFlamenco kept me a comforting company. I practiced my Spanish with nurses giggling, as I fingered guitar-notes on my forearm….
I feel much better, and resumed walking steadily but cautiously. I hope this lazy convalescence will not turn me into a portly out-of-shape old man, just before hitting the Italian beaches next week.
Thank you all -i might have said this before- I love this Forum.
Man, I sure didn't mean to start a war by posting this.
All questions about the sound recording aside, the reason I posted this and the reason I like it is that it seems not too difficult. If you go to his website, he has the first 3 pages of the score in pdf.
Like something that I might even be able to learn.
Unlike some of the more virtuosic stuff out there.
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (in reply to alex_lord)
quote:
Wow, I was in Lido about 8 months ago. Beautiful place and such a great contrast to Venice. Buon divertimento!
Grazie, Alex. Un posto calmo e rilassante, ma forse un po' noioso. But it will be a family reunion where we grew up. 4 brothers (with families, now) will make it a "riot"....
RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)
quote:
He's not the first person to do this. A guy from Oz did a great version of Buleria in Rodena key. Rodena tuning adds an aspect of introspection to buleria. Who knows maybe it will develop into a standard palo.
Gerardo Nuñez has recorded buleria por rondeña a few times, tracks "en el arco" on "flamencos en nueva york" cd, and "hacia mi" on "jucal" cd
the earliest recording of buleria in rondeña tuning i have is niño miguel track "recuerdos" on his 2nd lp "diferente" from 1976
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and just say what i wanna be saying...do you know what i am saying 
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