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Bulerias Rhythm Counting?   You are logged in as Guest
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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

Bulerias Rhythm Counting? 

Hi there guys, just got taught the bulerias rhythm..
just wondering whether I have to count the numbers when I practice the rhythm..
so instead of
"12" 1 2 "3" 4 5 "6" 7 "8" 9 "10" 11

can I don't use numbers and just go with a rhythm in my mind like

DUM dee dee Dum dee dee DUM dee DUM dee DUM dee

would just using a drumming/percussion rhythm in my mind when learning the rhythm kill my progress in the future?
So I need to make sure I know which is 6 and which is 3 and which is 8?

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2009 4:30:17
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

can I don't use numbers and just go with a rhythm in my mind like
DUM dee dee Dum dee dee DUM dee DUM dee DUM dee

Yeah, that's fine, but I'd change that fifth dee for a dikky.

Wait, let me rephrase that...

Ideally you want to forget about the numbers. The only thing that matters is that some of the intervals are longer than others.

quote:

would just using a drumming/percussion rhythm in my mind when learning the rhythm kill my progress in the future?


It's a good idea to spend a year or two paying very close attention to recordings, following the rhythm in your head to see if you lose your place.

quote:

So I need to make sure I know which is 6 and which is 3 and which is 8

They've all got different relationships within the 12-beat pattern. But, like I said, the number isn't as important as the length of the interval and what kind of intervals are before and after it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2009 6:29:36
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to HolyEvil

IMO counting is a tool,
use it if you can't just "feel" it,
and until you can "just feel it",
but you don't need to keep counting after that....

also, IMO, if you need to count at the beginning (i did, and i think most people who don't grow up with it do), and if you count enough, for long enough, eventually the counting turns into a sort of "DUM dee dee Dum dee dee DUM dee DUM dee DUM dee" anyway

what do other people think?

sorry norman, i didn't mean to dismiss your post by saying "what do other people think?", when i read the thread noone had posted replies yet, and you must have posted yours while i was writing mine....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2009 6:33:50
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to mark indigo

I sing it, going higher with the voice on 12, 3, 6, 8, down with the voice on 10, similar to what you could call a "Buleria Rap"

For starters it's important and for later a reference for communicating with others, but eventually you do have to feel it. Solo guitar falsetas have half compás all over the place anyways.

Once you get into accompanying singing (especially Jerez style) you'll need to learn to think in 6's, sometimes even 3's or 2's, a singer can start in any quarter of the 12 they want, starting the compás from a new spot, sing three longer, put a little gap in there. Adjusting to that is a big challenge.



Perfect example at 1:13, the singer starts a half a compás later, you have to go with it. There are some tricky live recordings where the singer pauses right after singing for the C7/F and holds the voice, probably giving the guitarist an evil grin while doing so

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2009 7:30:40
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

and if you count enough, for long enough, eventually the counting turns into a sort of "DUM dee dee Dum dee dee DUM dee DUM dee DUM dee" anyway

what do other people think?


Hi Mark,

I agree.
If you stick to any of these "full cycle" conventions, you end up thinking rigidly like that and any falsetas you make up have that stamp all over them.

I tend to think in "taka-tak, tak, tak", like that Bulerias where Paco does it with his foot. (ie 6's)
It's also possible then to change to 3's (taka-tak, taka-tak, taka-tak etc )
The main problem is that you really don't know exactly where you are in the cycle, but that's also one of the main benefits.

This guy has obviously got sick of counting and all this compás stuff...



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2009 10:16:59
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to HolyEvil

Hmmmm hard to say,
but let Bootsy explain:


And than imagine Pace (Cepero) explaining this....""You begin on the 12 and then..."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2009 9:40:55
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to kozz

Ha-ha, excellent!

"And then you want to break it down... BREAK-DOWN!!!"

I always wondered what Manuel Torre would have thought of Charley Patton and vice-versa.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2009 10:38:47
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to kozz

quote:

And than imagine Paco (Cepero) explaining this....""You begin on the 12 and then..."


"...and then you would try to fit your different notes, what you felt, in between that, like....uh...uh...uh..., you know. It's however you feel, you just got to fit it between that space, that little space that you got...sabes..."


Well that certainly explains playing in compas very nicely. Thank you Bootsy, and Kozz.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2009 11:04:04
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Bulerias Rhythm Counting? (in reply to Estevan

.... and THATs the BULERIA....and then you can CHANGE it....you know!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2009 11:29:16
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