Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
... I'm not proud about my country... but that is no culture IMO and not acceptable. Well,.. maybe culture per definition..but what kind of culture?? One to be proud of? If I would meet such person I would beat the **** out of him. If he would be stronger, I would hit him down from behind when he doesnt see it coming. ..Thats his style..so he should not be mad... if he would survive that. F u c k these people! Im really sorry for writing directly like that. But such bullfighting is one of the strangest things of nowadays...
(EDIT: Well,.. now I realyze.. tomorrow Im going to grill some steaks in the evening.... mjjamm! I love steaks!
Well,.. at least the bulls from bullfighting have a chance to kick some ass before they get gored. Still unfair...but thats acceptable. I mean..if I would have the choice to get killed without doing anything or with fighting and maybe take some of the bastards who wanna kill me with me to death... I would choose to fight....
So,.. in the end... I think there is no problem with bullfighting...
Im really sorry for writing directly like that. But such bullfighting is one of the strangest things of nowadays...
But it wasn't always like that. When I was very young, Doctors would encourage some people to take up smoking who presented with nervous or depressive problems.
(In fact, I remember my own Doctor lighting up as I sat down in his consulting room and flicking the ash into an overflowing ashtray!)
I remember seeing signs on the bus saying "no spitting", which was seen to be an acceptable habit in the past before me.
I think the Corrida has always had important imagry in Flamenco.
In fact, even to this day I still think of the sight of a great player such as Paco or Tomatito, alone on a stage... this solitary figure with a single spotlight upon him and thousands of an audience watching him in expectation, very much like the Corrida.
I think that you have to look at things in their historical context, although I do agree that Bullfighting has definitely had it's time and should now pass into History as public sentiments have slowly changed....and always will.
how often do these matadors die? like whats the ratio?
here's a joke:
After his day's sightseeing, an American touring Spain stopped at a local restaurant. While sipping his wine, he noticed a sizzling, scrumptious - looking platter being served at the next table. Not only did it look good, the smell was wonderful. He asked the waiter:
"Tell me, g-a-r-c-o-n, what is that you just served?"
The waiter, slightly irritated at being thought to be French, nevertheless, smiled and replied:
"Ah senor, you have excellent taste! That is our bull-fighting special and those are B-B-Q'd balls of the unlucky toro, the bull who died this morning while the crowd cheered the victorious matador. It is a Spanish delicacy!"
The American, though momentarily daunted when he learned the origin of the dish said:
"What the hell, I'm on vacation! Bring me the bull's balls, pronto!"
The waiter replied:
"I am so sorry senor. There is only one serving a day, since there is only one bull fight each morning. If you come early tomorrow and place your order, we will be sure to be able to serve you this delicacy!"
The next morning, the American returned and the waiter quickly made his way over and said:
"The bullfight has just finished. Would you like to order the special for tonight?
The Americas tourist remembered their conversation and said:
"Sure, B-B-Q those bulls balls for me - I'll be there."
That evening, he was served the one and only special delicacy of the day. After a few bites, he called to the waiter and said:
"These are really excellent, the garlic, the tomato, perfect but I have to say, these balls are much, much smaller than the ones I saw you serve yesterday! What gives? Am I being screwed with?"
The waiter replied with a smirk:
"Si, senor, in a way! You see, sometimes the bull, he wins!"
Now I understand why you don´t understand flamenco. Toros, copla, carnaval, flamenco, juergas, guasa, tapas, alegría: they are all merely different aspects of the culture of Andalucía. If you presume to understand flamenco, you should at least try to understand its culture.
"If I would meet such person I would beat the **** out of him. If he would be stronger, I would hit him down from behind when he doesnt see it coming. .."
You should be ashamed of this kind of comment: you are a person I would really not like to meet.
"Bullfighting is a disgraceful hangover from Spain's sadistic past. "
Yesterday in Madrid, the aficionados included the King and the Infanta. Also Sara Baras. In Jerez and in El Puerto de Santa María, Paco Cepero and Rancapino have their abonos in the barrera. Y muchos más.
Still it is always nice to know that these cultivated foreigners have so much to teach the Spanish.
Anyone born and brought up in the Animal Rights world of today, will of course always abhor Bullfighting, Fox Hunting etc.
i have grown up with these ideas, and was quite radical in my thinking when i was around 19/20 yrs old, very pc and all that....
....but i think there is something in this outlook and mindset that has lost touch with the fact that humans have evolved (as a species we are about 200,000 years old, but have evolved from other hominid species going back into the millions of years) as hunters, and so as predators.
Even the realities of farming we seem to have lost touch with.... we now have laws which state that farm animals being transported have to legally have more room than the average commuter on a train gets, let alone anyone traveling by tube....
....and noone seems even to question this, and if anyone does they get called a fascist or something.... or someone threatens to club them on the back of the head (talk about violence!!!!)
ORIGINAL: Sean Yesterday in Madrid, the aficionados included the King and the Infanta. Also Sara Baras. In Jerez and in El Puerto de Santa María, Paco Cepero and Rancapino have their abonos in the barrera. Y muchos más.
That statement doesn't even mean anything except maybe that bloodlust is still in the Spanish blood. 'A few years ago, Spain's National Court was given the power to investigate torture and other serious crimes anywhere in the world, even if no Spanish citizens were involved. The ruling has triggered a flood of international suits, including two cases regarding Guantanamo detainees.' - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104361525 The same country that investigates torture in other countries still likes to do it at home?
Its an event. People go there not only because of bulls, but to come together there. Culture. Until i went to watch my first football game, i always thought, that its about drinking too much beer, screaming and hitting each other but it was actually very nice. And no, the aim is not torture. If that would be the case, why should they let the bull run freely there? Torturing is done by fixing the object. I dont really "understand" what is bullfighting about, or what its symbolic, cultural roots are, hence i dont like or dislike it, but it would be wrong to forbid others to watch it, who enjoy it. As long as nobody is damaged, its ok IMO.
ORIGINAL: Deniz And no, the aim is not torture. If that would be the case, why should they let the bull run freely there? Torturing is done by fixing the object.
The bull is routinely drugged and exhausted before the fight, has its horns blunted and grease put in its eyes so that it doesn't have the strength or focus it usually would have. The aim might not be torture, but the animal is then stabbed to enrage it, weaken it and cause it to lose blood and teased and frutstrated. Sounds pretty much like torture to me. If the torero is so brave, why not go take on the bull in its own field?
As long as nobody is damaged, its ok IMO.
The bull always dies. Sometimes slowly and horribly, which may not be what the crowd wants to see, but it still happens.
Bullfights aren't a tradition, they are shameful. Violence, blood, pain and death cannot be values en a just society in an evolved and modern country.
Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals".
Please watch the video to see the 'art' of bullfighting, be warned it may offend some viewers.