I hate new strings!

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I hate new strings!

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Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

I hate new strings!

I hate when I have to change my strings. First of all it takes too long, then the guitar is out of tune for awhile, then the sound is metallic and tinney.(sp? like tin..) The strings are also too squeaky. I am often surprised to read some of your posts about how you like new strings...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 13:25:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Well, i start to like new strings after 2 to 4 days until about 10 to 12 days (then i hate them again). Specially the Bass strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 14:22:37

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

i hate the problem of tuning that comes with new strings but i like the sound of the basses. the trebles need to be worked in a little. the actual act of changing strings isnt too bad because im fast and i like to see how much of a neater job i can do than the last time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 14:45:38

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

I can understand your frustration with strings changing their tone after a while. I like strings that maintain a consistent tone throughout their useful life.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 18:27:32

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to kovachian)

Are there such strings? I am using the red Labella 820 strings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 18:29:34

edguerin

Posts: 1583
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

You only need to change the trebles about 1-2x a year (!), the basses every couple of weeks.

If you have a peghead, string changing is quit straightforward and fast; with machines a wider can help a lot.

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 20:59:48

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to edguerin)

quote:

You only need to change the trebles about 1-2x a year (!), the basses every couple of weeks.

is this really true? doesn't the intonation go bad?

for basses, i reverse them after the second week, or at least adjust them and slide the whole thing down a few frets. you'll get the brand new strings sound for a day or two!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 21:09:01

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

Are there such strings?

Quite possibly. My Aquila Alabastros are as crisp and bright now as they were when I put them on three weeks ago. I look forward to finding out how long these last.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 22:06:52

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Gummy,
You have my vote on this too!

I don't like the sudden change in sound and the brightness and loudness (especially just for practising stuff), plus constantly needing to tweak the tuning.

I only change them (the basses) when a winding starts to go.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2009 1:45:30

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Hi Gummy,

I would say it all can be really depending on the guitar as well. I used to moan about it too, but after years, you'll just find the ways and tricks how to change the strings in few minutes. Also, the time needed for reinstalling the new strings on the instrument can be reduced when you've done it so many times. It's not a big deal anymore, but there heve been times before, when I hated it just like you do. Yes, the metalic sound is not a pleasant thing, but when it settles down and gets used to the tension, it can also improve the sound of the guitar.

Like I have one 67 Euro Valencia factory made [China] classical guitar restringed with D'adario classical strings a middle tension ones and along with it I drastically lowered the hight of the action [from 4 to 2,8mm] what actually made the guitar act almost like a real flamenco guitar. For the first time I was very surprised by it. Now its very easy to play but the sound gets worse and worse when the metalic coating on the bass strings gets old and does not sound anymore. But when the strings are new, I am very happy with its sound.

Sure the fact of necessity of permanent tuning is annoying, but there is no aid to it. As all kinds of materials need used to the tension, when being put into artificial [out of natural] condition, string do the same. When first time stretching the strings to tune them, their tendency to get immediately out of tune is caused by natural tolerance of the material which needs to get used to unnatural tension, by further and further tuning, untill it gets into the limits, where no more tension is necessary, because the material has been already exhausted in his ability to resist the tension. Then the resistance of the material string is made of and artificial tension get into ideal balance.

I found out, it also depend on how the strings are hit and how the tone is produced. I asume, the cheaper guitar can also improve its sounds, when played by very good technique and sensitive approach. Most recently I am in temptation to say, that guitar is a living creature, which needst to be fed by musician's emotions, as the sound of wood somehow really react on the nature of energy beeing put into the strikes of the artist.

I suspect the greatest luthiers producing the highest cathegory of flamenco guitars, from using the same kind of passionate approach. They - apart from using the very skilful methods and highest, best quality of woods - must also put another element into process of production. This maybe is the hidden secret of each one of them...

This might be a point or cause of phenomena, which may occur, when artist improves the instrument's sound qualities by putting whole heart into it. He instinctively plays with magic...

I am sorry if my brief answer got so long or if I am out of topic in few points. It wasn't my intention.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2009 8:56:38

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

I dont like new treble strings because they always need time to get brilliant sound... Tey always start with plastic sound...

But I really like new bass strings. I can do many things only when they are new. When they get dirty its much harder to get all done hearable.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2009 12:15:26

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

I hate when I have to change my strings. First of all it takes too long,

Get pegs!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 8:08:08

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I dont like new treble strings because they always need time to get brilliant sound... But I really like new bass strings. I can do many things only when they are new. When they get dirty . ..

You DO know how to clean bass strings? It returns them to a new sound . . . I find I can play them until all the silver is worn off. But it takes a good guitar to make strings sound good that long. And it is definitely the finger gunk that gets into the windings of the bass strings that makes them sound dead. It isn't the age of the string. It's the dirt.

Anyway, just in case you don't know how to clean: Take the bass strings off, roll them up in a coffee mug of hot water. Add a cap of ammonia and a dab of liquid detergent. Mix it and let it sit for 15 minutes. Pull each string through a washcloth a few times, squeezing hard. Rinse with cold water to get all the ammonia/detergent out. Let them dry (I whip them in a circle a few times, (spraying the ceiling and walls and entertaining the dog) then roll them up and rest the roll on top of a lamp shade above the light bulb).

They go right back to staying in tune much more quickly than new bass strings. And you don't need to change those brilliant trebles until the bass finally give out.

Some day, someone will invent a way of cleaning bass strings without taking them off the guitar. Something like those things that clean golf balls, maybe.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 8:11:25

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Sounds like a good idea to clean the strings because they are very expensive...

quote:

Add a cap of ammonia and a dab of liquid detergent.

I definetely want to try it like you described, but I dont understand all completely. Which size of a cap? A spoon full? Or do you know the circa molarity of the ammonia in the cup?
And which kind of a liquid detergent? I have acces to almost any chemicals.. but if possible please tell me the official names.
I have so many dirty strings... If it works for me, I would e extremely happy!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 12:34:06

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I have acces to almost any chemicals

That is really quite an alarming thought, Doit, thinking about all the various accidents that have happened in your lab in the past......

I bet any household bleach/lavvy cleaner, watered down a bit would do...
Or an Electronic Component De-Greaser? (Trichloroethane)

Hey...I bet an Ultrasonic Bath (Freon with Ultrasound disruption) would work really well!!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 12:47:46

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

Add a cap of ammonia and a dab of liquid detergent.

do you add any water to this mixture? this doesn't sound like a lot enough to even immerse the strings sitting at the bottom of the mug.

quote:

Some day, someone will invent a way of cleaning bass strings without taking them off the guitar. Something like those things that clean golf balls, maybe.

i found this through google:
http://www.thestringcleaner.com/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 14:23:31

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

I dont like new treble strings because they always need time to get brilliant sound... Tey always start with plastic sound...

But I really like new bass strings. I can do many things only when they are new. When they get dirty its much harder to get all done hearable.

Me to. I dont like new trebles. They need at least 1 week before they sound good. 1 month is even better.
Since I have more than 1 guitar, I prefer to string it up and not play it for a week or so. all treble strings benefit from that and some basses, especially Luthier35. They sound like sh**t when you just put them on but after a week, they are very nice and last very long, so this way you have completely new and well sounding strings on your guitar.

And yes, its a good idea to clean the basses. It also helps cleaning the guitar sometimes

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 23:47:05

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

That is really quite an alarming thought, Doit, thinking about all the various accidents that have happened in your lab in the past......

Well,.. did I mention anything?? I had no big accidents till now.. Only tiny things not worth to mention.... There dropped a bottle of pure acetic acid which just caused immediately evacuation of the lab and a free day! Well and the floor is shining in bright white now.. So it wasn´t so bad..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2009 4:49:52

n85ae

Posts: 876
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

full strength ammonia works well, 5-10 minutes then rinse with hot water.

I'm going to give then a soak in dilute phosphoric acid and see how that works
next time to see how well that works for getting rid of the oxidation. Use it
all the time for paint prepping aluminum, so I've got a lot of it handy. Poor
mans version would be to soak in coca-cola overnight then hot water rinse
then maybe ammonia bath and rinse. (coca cola contains phosphoric acid)

The ammonia does wonders for finger gunk in the nylon fibers, but it doesn't
do anything for the oxidized windings. Which is what I think the dilute acid
would work for.

Regards,
Jef

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2009 10:36:15

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Ahh, fresh, brand new basses!!!! one of the best things in life!!!!

LOVE EM!

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2009 1:46:40

n85ae

Posts: 876
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

On the other hand I generally buy ten pack's of strings, so I pretty much never
clean them, and just replace them. The D'Addario's settle in fast, and last long
enough that cleaning strings is something that I've only really done just
out of curiosity. However, cleaning them really does work (for a short time
anyway).

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2009 5:41:35

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

I may be in the minority here... if i could have new strings every two weeks I;d do it.

I play calssical too, so intonation is important... plus i play alot so they get flattened out.

I actually abraid the trebles because my hnails are so hard so i like em fresh!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2009 20:26:09

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

The D'Addario's settle in fast, and last long
enough that cleaning strings is something that I've only really done just
out of curiosity.

After selling all my good guitars, and being left with my old Yamaha “101” (cedar over a laminated something), I took Tom Nunez’ advise and tried Luthier Supreme n.20 Basses with Labella Elite Flamenco Black trebles. An exciting blend assuring a rich and brilliant even with the most recalcitrant of guitars. I am really impressed.

The Labella black trebles have a slightly higher tension than the Luthier’s trebles yet they seem to mix nicely with its basses.

I have no idea what the life-span of these will be. Certainly, I was spoiled by the D’Addario composite's death-defying resiliency, and I too bought a Luthier's 12-pack (most conveniently priced at stringsbymail). In my experience, Trebles should generally last 3 times longer than Basses (so I bought only 4 labella trebles packets). But we shall see with this.

By the way, I am inclined to get a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez, either the Extra F or the F 1, blanca as my "one and only" (pero una naranja). Any experience with this instrument and what strings seem to bring out its inner better flamenco voice?

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2009 9:57:42

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

i just put a new brand of bass strings to try out, Luthier's new bronze wound basses, and they do not sound that good on my guitar.

now, do i suck it up and keep these on for a few weeks and wear them out or do i take them off and trash them and waste the money i spent?

i love new strings! i also like the way savarez corum and d'addario's sound when they get old and their character changes.

doug

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2009 6:04:43

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Extra F or the F 1, blanca as my "one and only" (pero una naranja). Any experience with this instrument and what strings seem to bring out its inner better flamenco voice?

I'm playing their Bulerías model and I'm absolutely satisfied with it's sound so far.
It is developing a nice, powerful treble sound. To keep the bass sound brilliant I change the strings every 3 weeks as I do only play this single guitar. The standard D'Addarios work for me. They're cheaper than all the composite-stuff so that I can afford to change them more often.
I was told that the 1F extra was even louder than the Bulerías model, but I've never played the 1F extra.

BTW: the pau ferro wood looks great with a red finish

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2009 7:38:37

itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
The Labella black trebles have a slightly higher tension than the Luthier’s trebles yet they seem to mix nicely with its basses.

Hm, this is really weird - for me 820B seem to have lighter tension then Luthier PS20 trebles..
How would you compare LaBella 820B, Daddario EJ45, and Luthier PS20 trebles in terms of tension?
I have always believed it is like this (1 is the highest tension):
1. Luthier PS20
2. Daddario EJ45
3. LaBella 820B

650mm scale, 2.5-2.7mm action on the 12th

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Ilia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2009 9:39:53

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to itoprover)

quote:

Hm, this is really weird - for me 820B seem to have lighter tension then Luthier PS20 trebles..
How would you compare LaBella 820B, Daddario EJ45, and Luthier PS20 trebles in terms of tension?
I have always believed it is like this (1 is the highest tension):
1. Luthier PS20
2. Daddario EJ45
3. LaBella 820B

650mm scale, 2.5-2.7mm action on the 12th

Interesting indeed. I too always thought of Labella's elite flamenco being light in tension. Yet -at nearly identical guitar settings as you describe- when I switched the Luthier's trebles and replaced them with LaBella, I distinctively noticed a remarkable increase in tension. In fact, I plainly thought that perhaps they truly are of "medium tension" as advertised.

I enjoyed the lighter feel the Luthier's ones seem to afford, but these Labella trebles ring sweet and loud.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2009 11:44:28

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to gj Michelob)

What one feels as tension with fingers is not necessary the tension along the string. Strings of same tension (in the meaning of the force that is pulling the top) could feel harder because they are stiffer and/or thinner. E.g. Dogal Strings are ridiculously hard on my fingers because they are very stiff against sidewards bending ...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2014 22:34:30

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

Coming back to OT, I really like strings after few days of setting and before they (mainly the basses) become dull.
Actually the nicest phase of bass strings in their live is after the first washing in 5% ammonia. I leave them around 15min in the 5% ammonia solution and rinse them afterwards with lukewarm water (I don't dare to use hot water, as I don't know what it does to the thin nylon silk filaments inside). Then I rub it dry with microfiber cloth.

I find they are the best after this. They shine, though they have lost this squeakyness. Normally I can repeat this two to three times. Usually by this time the windings are worn through and I take a new bass set.

For me, the trebles live much longer, and I don't like them new at all (apart from a very short phase when they are not settled at all yet and don't keep the tuning in the. slightest). I change trebles only when they become dull (one set of trebles per year maybe) or loose their intonation so that I find it annoying (rarely happens).

As to the procedure of changing strings, I don't mind at all; with a winder it goes so quick, no problem. Only the phase of the first one two days, when they still loose tuning quickly is annoying a bit, but then I take another guitar.

best
Robert

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 8:17:38