"ancient" (1970) recordings by Camaron/PDL

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a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

"ancient" (1970) recording...

I've got three 45 rpm vinyl recordings, all dated 1970 and all three with the same title, (even though sold separately with different cover art): "El Camaron de la Isla con la colaboracion especial de Paco de Lucia" and they contain 12 very puro traditional tracks. Absolutely nothing nuevo about them, so you can really hear their roots here. I bought them myself in 1971 in a record shop in Barcelona, back when they were just beginning to be known outside Spain -- at least I had heard of them by then.

Two questions:

(1) Does anyone know if these have been remastered onto CD?

(2) How long before 1970 did they team up?

Here is an example of one of the record jackets.

the contents are

Llorando me lo Pedia (Fnd. de H)
Una Estrella Chiquitita (Bul)
Barrio de Sta Maria (Aleg)
Camina y Dime (Tarantos)

The other two have

Al Verte las Flores (Bul)
En una Piedra me Acoste (Fand)
Que un Toro Brave en su Muerte (Tientos)
Si Acaso Muero (Siguiriys)

and

Detras del tuyo se va (Tangos)
y tu no me respondias (soleares)
anda y no presumas mas (Bul por Sol)
Con la varita en la mano (Fand)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 11:38:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

Well, they don't seem that "ancient" to me, Tony!!

I've got a lot of those LPs.

I am thinking about getting a USB record player as they are coming down in price a lot now and opening up some of the boxes I have stored in the loft.

When I do, (and that sounds like a good Summer project), I'll upload the odd track or two that's not available on CD... (but not on this site.)

Maybe others could do the same?

I mean...if the record companies reckon it's not financially viable to reprint them, then does that mean this music and that moment in time has gone forever?

I would say No...

They are not the masters of the universe now IMO, thanks to the Internet.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 11:56:41

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

I think the official title of all those old Camaron/PDL discs was that generic "colaboracion especial". The records have subsequently come to be known by the title of the first song. So, the second record you mention is now known, and sold, as "Al Verte Las Flores Lloran"

All that stuff should be available on CD. Just use the name of the first song to search for 'em.......

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 12:25:52

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

Two questions:

(1) Does anyone know if these have been remastered onto CD?

(2) How long before 1970 did they team up?

in answer to the first question, yes, they are available on cd. What you seem to have is their first lp on 4 ep's. Although they were originally without title, the 4 "Con la colaboración especial de Paco de Lucía" albums are known by the first track of each lp, in this case "Al verte las flores lloran."

for sale here, take your pick:

https://www.flamenco-world.com/tienda/producto/al-verte-las-flores-lloran/246/

http://www.esflamenco.com/product/en75092066.html

https://www.deflamenco.com/tiendaflamenco/ver.jsp?cod=16

you also might find on amazon etc.

in answer to your second question, i understood this lp to have been released in 1969, their first together, though when they first began playing and singing together or exactly when it was recorded i don't know

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 12:37:37

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to mark indigo)

i might have known someone else would answer while i was tapping away... must practise typing to a metronome and get it up to speed!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 12:38:50

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

Ooh, I'd like to have those LPs!

It's easy to find all kinds of stuff on vinyl, as long as it isn't 'world music'..

I prefer vinyl over other music formats, you don't skip around and you listen to entire albums (at least full sides). You need to take time to find the record, place it on the platter, dust it off, place the needle etc. This small effort makes you listen in a different manner.. it's not touched by the sense of inflation that the digital realm comes with, where the availability of everything makes you listen to 100000 different things superficially instead of listening to a few select albums in greater depth.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 12:39:27

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to mrMagenta)

quote:

I prefer vinyl over other music formats, you don't skip around and you listen to entire albums (at least full sides). You need to take time to find the record, place it on the platter, dust it off, place the needle etc. This small effort makes you listen in a different manner.. it's not touched by the sense of inflation that the digital realm comes with, where the availability of everything makes you listen to 100000 different things superficially instead of listening to a few select albums in greater depth.

good point.

with the ipod generation came a new disease i like to call "musical adhd."

while you listen to the intro or an exciting part, you're searching for the next song to play, never taking the time to give the song or album you're listening much attention. "superficial listening" as you put it.

plus, there's something about the sound quality of vinyls that's very appealing. anyone ever notice how sh*tty mp3 players sound?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 12:58:38

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

i might have known someone else would answer while i was tapping away... must practise typing to a metronome and get it up to speed!

Yeah, but accuracy, as always, is more important than speed! I just reread the original post and saw that a_arnold's records are eps. Oops! So, you're right, that's just the first record, spread out on 45s....

a_arnold, you're in the US, right? I just checked the Flamenco Connection site, and they've got all that old stuff. Some of 'em, including Al Verte las Flores Lloran, are only ten bucks. The first three or four colaboraciónes (Cada Vez que Nos Miramos, Son Tus Ojos Dos Estrellas, Canastera, etc) are very close in sound and style, so if you like the first one, get the other ones too!

All of those records absolutely rip, which I'm pleasantly reminded of every time I listen to them. I know they're great, but I actually forget just HOW great, until I listen to them again.....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2009 14:12:48

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

I prefer vinyl over other music formats

Nice to see some more vinyl junkies around here. Altough having an mp3 player isn't that bad, especially when lying at the beach or so, at home I always prefer vinyl. (Perhaps still a habit form my Techno background)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 4:10:18

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

"musical adhd."

Imagine if you got both, that's hard I can tell you.....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 4:12:28

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to kozz)

quote:

Imagine if you got both, that's hard I can tell you.....

i think i used to have it as a child-teen but was never diagnosed. anyways, there's good news for people like us!

from south park:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=23844244

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 6:35:57

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

Thanks, guys, that's great info.

NOW: Does anybody know if there are more in that special collaboration series beyond these three? It appears I'd have to know the names of the first song to search for more of them on CD . . .

Stretching my memory back (to 1970), I think I was pretty broke at the time, traveling around Spain, so I had to pick and choose, so I bought a few other performers (Andres Batista, Gabriel Moreno, Victor Monge) rather than getting all the PDL/Camaron I could find. So I probably passed up a few that I should have bought.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 10:32:06

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

Tony,

This is the Camaron/PDL discography, so far as I know it, and is, I think, in chronological order, from ’69 to the late 70s. I think guitar duties are shared with Paco brother on one or two of the later ones, Rose Maria, maybe?.... The last record or two can get a bit more “modern” on some of the tracks, but there’s more of a gradual evolution taking place throughout this catalog, rather than any jarring jumps into modernity. I’m pretty sure there’s a tiny bit of flute in there somewheres…..

Al Verte las Flores Lloran
Cada Vez que Nos Miramos
Son Tus Ojos Dos Estrellas
Canastera
Caminito de Totana
Soy Caminante
Arte y Majestad
Rosa María
Castillo de Arena

Right now I’m listening to PDL’s 1970 “colaboracion especial” with El Lebrijano, which is absolutely fantastic and on par with some of the above stuff. Definitely worth checking out, too…..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 11:09:18

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

Thanks, Adam! Now I have a new project: Get them all.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 15:18:10

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

Now I have a new project: Get them all.

Sounds like a capital idea, my man.

They’re all great records, and are all worth owning, though there really is something special about the first few, an explosive intensity and vitality that isn’t quite as pronounced later on (to my ears).

I wasn’t around to hear them when they came out, but even listening to them now I can get a sense of the energy and excitement that must have been felt when that stuff hit the streets….

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2009 15:47:27

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to srshea)

The thing I liked most about this stuff was the economy of notes.

Paco always made every note count and mentally edited everything down to a minimalistic version, played incredibly well.

"The Core".

That was his Trademark to me, no ****, just straight playing of what counted.

These days, I hear players show off their technique by trying to cram in as many notes, chords and whatever into the shortest time interval.

I'm told that the music is "evolving" etc, but I'm not really convinced.

I don't know if this makes it any "better" or what, but my ears and brain tells me it doesn't somehow.

Maybe I'm a Dinosaur?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2009 12:56:53

Martin

Posts: 150
Joined: Nov. 21 2004

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

Llorando me lo Pedia

Not sure if I should reply here or in the audio uploads section. But look see what some nice spaniard has gone and done.

Fandango

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 0:22:07

Martin

Posts: 150
Joined: Nov. 21 2004

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

I've added the front page of this website in the audio/video section its full of his recordings

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 0:36:25

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

I can't get enough of that picture. Somehow you can feel their intensity and dedication to the art just through their expressions. This Camaron is a very different Camaron than he was when he died...in this picture he looks like he should have pocket protectors and bunch of pens. I know he had to do all the smoking, drinking, and drugs because he was an artist and he lived life to the fullest, but I do think it hurt his music in his later career...hurt his voice at least. Maybe it's just not possible to create so much incredible art within a short period of time and go on living, you get burned out.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 7:35:38

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

I'm told that the music is "evolving" etc, but I'm not really convinced.

I think the art hit a peak when these records were made. That's not to say there aren't more peaks ahead.

I understand what you are saying about the "evolving" issue, Ron, but I tend to think of flamenco as not being a single evolving entity. It has branches, and I see the complex, solo-oriented nuevo guitar style as yet another branch off the main trunk of flamenco. It's an influence, and a valid new area of exploration, but I have faith that in the long run it won't change the fundamentals because the fundamentals are just too good to abandon. Flamenco can't remain flamenco without cante as a central aspect, and the accompaniment of cante will always be an influence that pulls the guitarist back toward the center.

As technically developed as a flamenco guitarist might become, he (or she) just isn't complete until accompaniment is mastered.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 7:56:25

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

in this picture he looks like he should have pocket protectors and bunch of pens.

Would you guys like me to post the other vinyl cover illustrations?

Tony

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 7:58:31

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I know what you mean deteresa...Camaron, despite his outrageous good looks and flamboyant style always had a sense of the mischievous-innocent about him and just a moment away from breaking into a smile or appreciating a good joke...(or an attractive Señorita!

)

I liked Camaron best of all in these early days like this...

or

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 9:36:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to Martin)

quote:

quote:

Llorando me lo Pedia

Not sure if I should reply here or in the audio uploads section. But look see what some nice spaniard has gone and done.

Fandango

this takes me to the letra for this track, but i can't find my way to the home page or the menu or the other tracks, could you put a link up or tell me how to access this please? thanks (in advance!)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 11:25:16

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "ancient" (1970) recor... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

Would you guys like me to post the other vinyl cover illustrations?

That would be cool. I just find it interesting how the artists' personal styles changed along with the music and probably alongside the political and social atmosphere of Spain at that time. I have Camaron's "Arte y Majestad" album and on that he already looks like a rock star...and of course Paco transformed himself on Amoraima.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 12:01:04