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Thomas Whiteley

 

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Florian

Florian;

I learned early that you have to organize your folders and this is what I do for my guitar music:

1. Create a root folder and call it Flamenco Guitar Music.
2. Create sub folders – one for each palo of interest.
3. Create additional subfolders under that such as:
A. Soleares 1
1. Introduction
2. Falsetas
3. Llamadas
4. Alzapua
5. Endings
6. Complete piece

You should have one sub folder for each Soleares. You can create a Soleares from taking introductions, falsetas, etc. from your sub folders (pick and choose what you like) and create a new Soleares. That is what I have done in my flamenco Handbooks – it is like plug and play in the computer world. TablEdit is great for this type of thing.

Date each piece of music so you know when you created it. TablEdit will allow you to do this and to add comments. I also date the file such as; Soleares Intro 1 1-30-04. Sometimes while developing a piece I will take variations and explore different paths. I may end up with several that I like and save them with different numbers. Keep track of your numbering system. Falseta 1-infinity, etc.

The latest date may not be the one you want to use. So keeping track can be fun but you know where things are located!

Oh yes - back up all your work!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2004 17:32:47
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Thomas Whiteley

Pfiew Tom that sounds like a lot of work :)

just kidding it makes sense, i will try to be more organised but i probably get nowhere near your level :) I might write titles to the falsetas but thats as far as il go !

Acctualy i have a system simillar to yours, i have one big folder that has :

Complete solo's
Stuff I am working on
Exercises

the only problem is that the "Stuff i am working on folder' has 1 million unfinished stuff falsetas in it :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2004 18:36:04
 
Thomas Whiteley

 

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Florian

quote:

the only problem is that the "Stuff i am working on folder' has 1 million unfinished stuff falsetas in it :)


That is called creative chaos!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2004 1:27:04
 
flamenco_9

Posts: 214
Joined: Jan. 15 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Florian

hiii florin here is the great colombianas of paco de lucia monasterio de sal I hope you like it...please do u have any tabs tef or gp or notation of vectore monge (serranito) , I would realy apreaciat it ,..thank you!
p.s. I have the peice in gp3 format wich is not supported so I have to make it in txt but it will not played accurately in tabs programs.so if gp3 format will be supported I will be glad to post it again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2004 23:06:31
 
flamenco_9

Posts: 214
Joined: Jan. 15 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to flamenco_9

here is monasterio de sal in ptb format but it is also not accurate as gp3 which is u can say a standered notation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2004 23:09:41
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Thomas Whiteley

hi flamenco_9 thank you

I am gonna have a look tonight when i get home and see what i have for you , can you send me an email so that i have you email adress ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2004 23:56:13
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Thomas Whiteley

Has anyone got the tab (Guitar Pro or Tabledit files) for the following tabs

1) Inspiration (Gipsy Kings)
2) Faena (Gipsy Kings)
3) Redemption (Tonino Baliardo)
3) La Barossa (Paco De Lucia)

These are all beautiful tracks - please someone make my dreams come true !!!
I have searched high and low for these tabs on the internet.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 14 2004 9:59:27
 
gkings

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 23 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Thomas Whiteley

Anyone have Paco De Lucia - Chanela? either in TablEdit or Sheet music?

thanks
-Gkings
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2004 17:49:26
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

bindu_72

I used to have G.kings book but i dont anymore.

I have la Barossa in Tab but not guitar pro or Table edit i am not sure anyone has done one.


Let me know if you want it in tab or ask the user directly underneath you
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 6:22:14
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to gkings

g.kings looking for it , i will let you know here if i have it or not
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 6:26:02
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Florian

Hi Florian,

Can I have the La Barossa in tab !!!
Is it from an official source (Paco music book) or someones interpretation.

Sounds like nobody has anything of Tonino Baliardo's :(

Cheers,
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 9:11:41
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

quote:

ORIGINAL: bindu_72
Sounds like nobody has anything of Tonino Baliardo's :(


I play a whole bunch of his stuff - Duende, Inspiration, Pharaon, Faena, Moorea.., but I never bothered to tab them out as apart from the opening theme/riff they are improvised solos, and he plays them differently each time. You just need to know your way around the fretboard for the scales and modes he uses.

You should be able to find the tab for the opening riffs for these plus the main chords used on the web, just do a Google for Gipsy Kings tabs.

Jon

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 10:37:27
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

Here it is ,I dont know how official it is but anyone that has ever played it has probably learned it from this source.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 14:54:08
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Florian

Thanks Florian,

Really appreaciated !!

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 21:43:21
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Jon Boyes

Hi Jon,

I had a quick look at your website - Very Impressive, I must say. Unfortunately I am but a mere student of the flamenco guitar (1 year) and its taken me that long to be able to play Entre Dos Aguas - probably would have taken a hell of a lot longer if it had tremolo's and Alzapua's in.

It just surprises me that you can readily find complete tabs for Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton and even Paco De Lucia - but for the good of learning nobody has bothered with Tonino. Although he may play it differently each time - someone should have at least tabbed a complete version of Inspiration, Faena and Moorea in it original recorded state.

Maybe Im being lazy and should spend some time working it out like you say. I put my hands up GUILTY as charged.

But come on Jon - how much do I have to pay you to tab these 3 classics for us. Im desperate. You will make a 31 year old really happy .

Bindu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2004 22:07:29
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

quote:

ORIGINAL: bindu_72
But come on Jon - how much do I have to pay you to tab these 3 classics for us. Im desperate. You will make a 31 year old really happy .

Bindu


If you are serious about this, and want 'off the record transcriptions' of Moorea, Inspiration and Faena, I would have to charge to same rate as I would charge for lessons - £22/hour. It would be a very expensive way to do it, though!

Strange that no-one seems to have published an 'official' transcription book of GK stuff, given that they are so big...

Anyhow as I said earlier, I'm sure you can get the the basic riffs and chords off the net for these numbers. I may even have some ASCII tabs of these at home in which case I'll just email them to you - what's your email?

..then if you really, really want the entire solos transcribed (1st album version), email me.

Jon

PS If you managed Entre Dos Aguas in a year of playing you are doing fine. If you play the two breakneck speed E minor picado runs in the middle, you certainly don't need any help from me!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 8:50:56
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Jon Boyes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jon Boyes

I may even have some ASCII tabs of these at home in which case I'll just email them to you - what's your email?




Hi Jon,

My email is bindu_72@hotmail.com.

I have tried and tried until my fingers are sore but I still cant play the Entre dos aguas picado runs like he does - if you can, how long did it take you - and do you have any tips for me to build up this speed and accuracy. On a related issue I have been practicing the Alzapua technique - how long roughly speaking does it take to build up the speed so that it sounds similar to what paco plays it in La Barossa. I have been practicing solidly for 2 hours a day for the past 3 months. (You may have to start charging me 22 quid an hour given the number of questions I have to ask you)

By the way :

Firstly, do you use tablature software like Tabedit or Guitarpro.

Secondly, out of interest how long would it take you to tab Inspiration, Faena and Moorea (1st album version). A cost estimate at 22 quid per hour is what im looking for.

I need to be able to play these three pieces before Im 6ft under !!!

Thanks for your time - its well appreciated : There are know flamenco guitar teachers in the Midlands.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 11:54:28
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

"My email is bindu_72@hotmail.com"

OK, will have a look later.

"I have tried and tried until my fingers are sore but I still cant play the Entre dos aguas picado runs like he does - if you can, how long did it take you - and do you have any tips for me to build up this speed and accuracy."

Firstly, no I can't :-) This is the only number at my gigs I use a pick for. I don't use it for the whole tune, just for the middle section where he plays those runs. Even then I sometimes chicken out and play something similar.

I don't have a conventional IM picado technique anyhow (RSI problem), but I am working on a new 'no pick' technique solution (new to me but not to flamenco). If things work out with this I'll be posting some audio and discussing it here.

As for speed and accuracy, Pumping Nylon has a great section on scale speed with exercises. I am a big fan of the idea that speed can be built up by practicing AT speed in small controlled bursts (get the book to see what I mean).

A whole lot more has already been said here about picado - the importance of practicing with a very relaxed hand, the way Paco elevates his arm to give a flat, straight forearm>wrist, developing a staccato attack to give clearer note separation, using a metronome with exercise to co-ordinate your left and right hands.
(somebody really ought to archive the technique tips ...)

Bear in mind that PDL took up the guitar when he was a small boy and his father locked him in his room to practice for 11-12 hours a day, and you'll see why his technique is so awesome.

"On a related issue I have been practicing the Alzapua technique - how long roughly speaking does it take to build up the speed so that it sounds similar to what paco plays it in La Barossa."

If you mean the very rapid triplets he plays, I'd say about fifteen to twenty years

Carfeul not to burn yourself. I think Alzapua is probably the technique that should be practiced with the greatest care. It can put great strain on the wrist if not done carefully and for limited periods.

"Firstly, do you use tablature software like Tabedit or Guitarpro."

I use Tabledit.

"Secondly, out of interest how long would it take you to tab Inspiration, Faena and Moorea (1st album version).

Probably around 3- 4 hours work per track at a guess.

Jon
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 12:27:48
 
Escribano

Posts: 5913
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

To search this forum on subjects like picado or alzapua, click on Search Make sure the time filter is set for All Topics, set "Search terms found in" to Subject or Body and type in your search term.

I would suggest you concentrate on regular, structured exercises for rasgeos, picado, alzapua, arpeggio, pulgar etc. - rather than play a piece over and over again.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 13:25:37
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Thomas Whiteley

quote:

I would suggest you concentrate on regular, structured exercises for rasgeos, picado, alzapua, arpeggio, pulgar etc. - rather than play a piece over and over again.


Bindu,

I agree completely with Simon. I think you are approaching flamenco in a Classical guitar sense. With this approach you will spend massive amounts of time learning three or four songs, without learning much, if anything about flamenco. The reason I say songs, is that's exactly what you will be able to play, but with little understanding of the underlying basis of flamenco. Instead of focusing on a couple of pieces, I would advise you to absorb yourself in as much flamenco as possible (listen to lots and lots of flamenco).

Granted, with time, you may become a very good guitarist, but not a good flamenco guitarist.

Pat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 16:19:02
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Patrick

Patrick/Simon,

Thanks for the valuable advice - your both right of course.

Although it sounds as though I just want to play a couple of songs and be happy with that its not entirely true. I spend most of my time working through course videos such as Oscar Herrero's flamenco step-by-step. I find these a very good source for learning correct hand position for picado, tremolo, alzapua and rasgeous. Most of the exercises are of the Chromatic scale type - but there are a few falseta's and solos to work through.

I am also working through Juan Martins Guitar Method book which is helping me to get to grips with the varying compas's - Soleares, Bulerias, Alegrias etc.

But I tend to find learning real songs like entre dos aguas really helps with motivation. Although its cutting corners - in the short term it keeps me wanting to learn more and more about flamenco.

Im sure one day after I know how to play those GK songs and Paco's La Barossa I will look deeper into Flamenco Scales and the Phrygian Mode.

I would be interested to know how you guys split your time between structured excercises and learning to play songs !!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 17:47:10
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

Bindu,

I'm glad to hear that you are working with the Herrero material. It really is very good.

I would also recommend the Graf Martinez volumes I and II. Graf isn't Spanish, but he plays like one. He's a good guy. If you have questions, he will try to help you by email.

Personally, I don't spend a great amount of time working on any one piece. I think it's more beneficial to dissect the piece, learning falsetas that you can put your own twist on to integrate into your own playing. That's really how the true flamenco's have done it for decades. They don't sit down with the thought of learning a piece from beginning to the end as in Classical guitar.

Just my thoughts

Pat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 18:23:42
 
Escribano

Posts: 5913
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

I too use Herrero but one of the best bits of spending time in Jerez was learning to exercise. I know what you are saying about motivation in learning a piece, but you may only be playing within your comfort zone and it could encourage bad habits.

quote:

I would be interested to know how you guys split your time between structured excercises and learning to play songs


Without a teacher or regular pena to inspire me, I am only and I mean only learning the exercises now. To put the techniques into my toolbox. Then one day, I can pull them out as needed; when I am in Spain or with a teacher, I guess. I speak as a novice and a casual learner.

In Jerez, Fergusito tabbed every combination of every scale he could think of and practised them for hours each day, all over the fretboard - plus a rather complex Tangos falseta. When he was faced with accompanying singers in the pena (I dropped him in it a little ) he didn't fit in one falseta all night - I know he learnt buckets and played very well. One of the singers told him he had a gift.

I was amazed how slowly they play the soleares in Jerez.

I am trying to find the time to wrtie it all up for you guys - it is an education but hard to explain.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 18:45:13
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1449
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

Hi Bindu!

I have a nice picado practice that perhaps help you a little.
Most picado problems start with chainsing the strings.
this is how i practice my right hand: ( the left hand speeds up in time/ practice)

imi on the 1st string
mim..........2th string
imi ............3th string
mim.............4th string
imi..............5th string
mim............6th string
than back from the 6th string to the 1st string again
start slow, and do it all together very regular.

After that imim 1 imim 2 imim3 imim4 etcetera
After that imimi 1 mimim2 imimi3 etcetra.

You think in months , better start learning to think in years!

One more thing, I disagree with my frends here, ( where have we frends for, right?)

I think it is very useful to built up slowly a repetoire with "songs"
It keeps you remember and study every technique, it is easy to put practicing into a song, take a solea, put some rasgueado in it some alzapua, a tremolo, llamada, and you have a song and practice everything at the same time.

Also it is good to study from your idols, you find out than what you must do better, you learn to breakdown music to pieces, and learn what difficulties the song have.
good luck with it, Peter.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 19:20:50
 
Escribano

Posts: 5913
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to gerundino63

quote:

One more thing, I disagree with my frends here


Well there's always one isn't there?

Also, try picado with ma as an alternate - builds strength.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 19:30:03
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to Patrick

Patrick,

Thanks for your thoughts - I have heard a lot of good things about the Graf Martinez volumes. I think you have convinced me to buy them now.

I hope it has a few rumba pieces to learn. In Paco De Lucia's Light and Shade one of the guys says (regarding entre dos aguas) "a rumba is seen as an inferior style of flamenco" and Juan Martins book (although excellant) disapointingly has most compas's except the rumba.

Thanks for the advice on learning and adapting lots of Falseta's. I have to admit I often forget how to play a lot of falsetas purely because I've been studing one piece exclusively - very frustrating to have to go back and re-learn something you could play with your eyes closed before !!!

Bindu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 21:51:15
 
bindu_72

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Mar. 12 2004
 

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to gerundino63

Hi gerundino63 (Peter)

Thanks for the picado exercises I will put them into practice.
Im so glad I stumbled across this forum last week. I've learnt quite a bit already - you are all excellant bunch of people.

"You think in months, Better start learning to think in years!" - aint that the truth.

From trying to nail a nice even and fast tremolo, to trying to generate an alzapua that sounds remotely like what it suppose to. Hundreds of rasguedos and break neck picado runs. I think I need to die and come back again. Maybe starting to play flamenco at age 30 is limiting ....

Bindu.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 22:04:33
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

Bindu,

The Graf Martinez material (volumes I & II) has some Rumba in them. If you want a full doss of Rumba, get his Rumba material available in CD or book format. I have the CD. Not a huge amount of material, but very well done. I haven't had a chance to get into it much, but it has some neat features. When the audio is played you can play the lead guitar or the rhythm guitar only.

Graf, are you listening? I want my cut!

Pat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 22:51:24
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1449
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

Hi Bindu!

I started flamenco at the age of 25, am 40 now, Playing next week at a Spanish Party, giving lessons, so, 30 is not really limited!

Besides that, I have red, that if you happen to live in the year 2015, your live expertation is 120.

Do not know if it is true, but in case it is, be prepared to play till you are 110, so 80 years left to practice!!

greetings, and, just to be curious, where do you come from?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 23:01:42
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Make your request for tablature here (in reply to bindu_72

quote:

I started flamenco at the age of 25, am 40 now, Playing next week at a Spanish Party, giving lessons, so, 30 is not really limited!


You guys are all kids! At 53, I have to beat my hands with a hammer to get feeling in them. Oh to be young again, but then again, I know things you don't know. Well, I think I do, but I can’t remember what they are.

They say the mind is the second thing to go, but I can’t remember what the first one is!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2004 23:12:31
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