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It is my understanding that he is going to cut a video playing a Francisco NavarroReyes copy. I heard that he gave his real Reyes to Francisco for restoration, and was so impressed that he bought a couple of Reyes copies, and plans to put a video on YouTube. But who knows . . .
If true this is going to break Lester De Voe's heart. I can't imagine Amigo would have ventured to Michoacán which seems to be something of a war zone. I would think Pancho has an outlet in Mexico City for his guitars.
I thought the idea behind this guitar was to have a an internal pickup guitar that he can plugin, nothing more. From some of the pictures with it he's both plugged in and mic'd. Not sure if sound issues drove him to this point or if its just something he wanted to have for easy-ness sake.
I can't imagine Amigo would have ventured to Michoacán which seems to be something of a war zone. I would think Pancho has an outlet in Mexico for his guitars.
The way I heard it was that he visited Poncho at his shop, and played a Reyes copy, and left his real Reyes. I'm pretty sure all that is true.
Whether or not he's actually going to cut a video remains to be seen.
Don´t know any details, but the headstock looks like a Carrillo...
Never seen Vicente playing (live) with another guitar like his Reyes. Maybe just a few times to promote... who knows...
The guitar Vicente posted on his Facebook page is a Francisco NavarroReyes copy. Legend has it that it was Manuel Reyes himself who told Vicente that there was a guy in Mexico who could build a guitar that was really close to his own. Incidentally, Vicente bought 2 Grand Concert Reyes copies from Navarro and liked them so much that he decided to develop a line of guitars with his name on the label... very much like what Carillo did with PdL and Tomate. Surprisingly, Navarro won't have his name on the label, which is weird... anyways, Navarro has built 4 prototypes of the model they wish to commercialize, and what you see in the picture is Vicente playing number 4 I believe. The guitar Vicente is seen playing is pretty much Navarro's Reyes copy with a little tweaking from Vicente and a pickup system installed inside, as well as a different headstock.
This will not be the guitar that will be commercialized actually. I am not sure how these guitars will be sold yet, but the price will be around USD 3,000 (including a hard case and international shipping) according to one of Navarro's dealers, who's had one of the 4 prototypes in his shop. Incidentally, this guitar will be cheaper than Navarro's Grand Concert Reyes model, which goes for USD 3,800... which means that the "Vicente Amigo" brand of guitars will be a step below what Navarro considers his concert line. It definitely won't have the pickup system, and might not be french polished either.
The pickup system used by Vicente is built by Carlos Juan. It has both an internal condenser mic and a piezo system (involves drilling a hole in the guitar! )... as well as a mini preamp which is glued inside the guitar. You can see it on his website. The system he has developed for Vicente is quite originally called the "Vicente" model! It retails for €900 (including installation) which is not cheap at all, but it's supposed to be really really good. Here's Carlos' website: http://carlosjuan.eu/
From the informations I have gathered Vicente was also very specific about the setup of the prototypes which is why Navarro had to build 4 of them in order to get it right... for example, he likes the string spacing between the 1st and 6th string at the bridge to be at 56mm, and the nut width is at 53mm.
Also, from what I understand, most of the tweaking has been about the pulsation of the guitar, so this is where it might defer slightly from the Navarro Grand Concert (or the Reyes copies built by Tom Blackshear - it was Tom who taught Navarro how to fine-tune the top of the Reyes copy)... otherwise it's the exact same guitar!
I think that Vicente and Navarro are on their way to be making quite a few Benjamins... why not, if the buyer is getting a good value-for-money guitar which captures that elusive Vicente Amigo Reyes sound! I wouldn't mind trying one myself!
I am still waiting for Vicente to just get a freakin conde and be done with it already.
I saw a picture of him at a juerga a while back... he was sporting a non-orange Conde blanca... the devilish horns on the headstock didn't quite suit his childish looks IMHO!
A 56mm E to E spacing, if correct, is really a crossover guitar spec. I'd imagine very few would go for something like that sans the guys who will buy just because V's name is on it.
A 56mm E to E spacing, if correct, is really a crossover guitar spec. I'd imagine very few would go for something like that sans the guys who will buy just because V's name is on it.
Really, Vincente likes the bridge spacing that narrow?
The Cordoba Cutaway I tried didn't even have that narrow of spacing at the bridge..
Really, Vincente likes the bridge spacing that narrow?
The Cordoba Cutaway I tried didn't even have that narrow of spacing at the bridge..
Kalo
I also found it really weird that he likes it that narrow, but it's the info I got... mind you, it might not be the case, but the source is pretty reliable.
A 56mm E to E spacing, if correct, is really a crossover guitar spec. I'd imagine very few would go for something like that sans the guys who will buy just because V's name is on it.
alot of older guitars are 56mm bridge spacing. I use to have one and I prefer it alot more than 57.5 that's on the guitar I have now.
for example, he likes the string spacing between the 1st and 6th string at the bridge to be at 56mm, and the nut width is at 53mm.
Does those 5,6 mm include both strings as well or only the space in between?
I'm really not sure at all, these are the dimensions I got from one of Navarro's dealers. He didn't give me more details.
Most of my guitars are 5.7 (in between) but i was hoping to try out a smaller version one day. My Conde is even 5.9 but he did a terrible job with the bride holes. The string division is very unbalanced with way to much space between E>A and A>D string (which is terrible when playing apoyando esp. picado). I did inform about the possibility to drill new string holes but that seems to be no option. I'm now doubting between replacing the bridge itself (not sure if that is wise/possible) or using bridge bones with string guidance (not sure the angle wouldn't become to sharp then because some strings have to be re-guided over 1 mm). I was planning to copy the slightly smaller (10mm) distance between D>G which seems to fit my hand very well and i believe that might bring the total distance close to 5.6 (maybe even less).
My Conde is even 5.9 but he did a terrible job with the bride holes.
That's really bad. Must have been made by an outside shop as I have read is standard practice for that marque. I had one briefly bought online and the c on the 1st and 2nd strings was stone dead. I sent it back.
RE: Vicente Amigo guitar (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
I'm now doubting between replacing the bridge itself (not sure if that is wise/possible) or using bridge bones with string guidance (not sure the angle wouldn't become to sharp then because some strings have to be re-guided over 1 mm).
E, I would get a luthier to fix the bridge. With the bridge removed, the pertinent holes can easily be filled and then redrilled with the exact type of spacing you prefer. I have done many steel string bridge replacements and it is one of the more easily done repairs in my opinion. I have also changed the string spacing on them which is a little more involved with a steel string since the body and bridge patch must be also filled and redrilled, not so with a flamenco since the strings don't go through the top. You could also ask for expert opinions about this in the luthiers forum. edit: here is a thread where only the tie block was replaced and new holes were drilled: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=236023&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
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RE: Vicente Amigo guitar (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
which is terrible when playing apoyando esp. picado). I did inform about the possibility to drill new string holes but that seems to be no option. I'm now doubting between replacing the bridge itself (not sure if that is wise/possible) or using bridge bones with string guidance
Hmm...sounds like would be easier to just channnel your alien abductor again, who had no problems with spacing before.
I've been trying to gather more information about the guitar but so far all the info I have gathered are in my post above... I'll send another few emails to people who might know how these guitars will be marketed exactly, and I'll get back to you guys if I gather more info.
Here’s the latest word on the Vicente Amigo/Francisco NavarroReyes copy. Vicente will be giving a concert in Madrid playing a NavarroReyes copy. He has already contracted to market a line of “Vicente Amigo” Reyes copies made by Poncho, and has actually placed an order for something like 250 of them over time.
He plans to sell them mostly in Europe. Incidentally, it’s not true that Poncho’s name will not be on the label. From what I understand the label will read “Vicente Amigo – made by Francisco Navarro,” or something like that.
RE: Vicente Amigo guitar (in reply to Ramon Amira)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic
Here’s the latest word on the Vicente Amigo/Francisco NavarroReyes copy. Vicente will be giving a concert in Madrid playing a NavarroReyes copy. He has already contracted to market a line of “Vicente Amigo” Reyes copies made by Poncho, and has actually placed an order for something like 250 of them over time.
He plans to sell them mostly in Europe. Incidentally, it’s not true that Poncho’s name will not be on the label. From what I understand the label will read “Vicente Amigo – made by Francisco Navarro,” or something like that.
Ramon
Is it essentially the Grand Concert Reyes just with a different bridge string spacing spec (as avimuno eluded to above) and label? Or are there other differences?
Here’s the latest word on the Vicente Amigo/Francisco NavarroReyes copy. Vicente will be giving a concert in Madrid playing a NavarroReyes copy. He has already contracted to market a line of “Vicente Amigo” Reyes copies made by Poncho, and has actually placed an order for something like 250 of them over time.
He plans to sell them mostly in Europe. Incidentally, it’s not true that Poncho’s name will not be on the label. From what I understand the label will read “Vicente Amigo – made by Francisco Navarro,” or something like that.
Ramon
Ramon,
Did you get the info on the finishing and the quality of the woods used? Which guitars in the line of Poncho will this correspond to? His Grand Concert or his Concert?
Also, how will Vicente be selling these guitars in Europe? Through established shops like La Sonanta or Mundo-Flamenco or through other channels?
I'm not sure how he plans to sell them, though it seems something like individually, through friends, word of mouth etc. But who know with these things.
The model will be very close to Poncho's current Grand Concert model, which is what his Reyes copy is. It will not be the Concert model, which is Poncho's personal model. I think there will be some tweaking of the Reyes with input from Vicente Amigo.
I also heard that VA said that the NavarroReyes copy sounded better than his own beloved real Reyes. Well, the Reyes copies are great guitars, especially for the price, but I think it's overstating the case to say that they are better than a real Reyes, which are the greatest flamenco guitars I have ever played.
So maybe he didn't really say that, or maybe it's a marketing ploy to sell his name line. Whatever . . . If someone wants to give me a real Reyes, I think I would accept it. Oh, er . . . please make it from the mid-eighties. Thanks.
I really can´t believe that a Reyes copy sounds like a Reyes. At the Frankfurt Music Show I´ve been at the Cordoba booth. They presented a Reyes flamenca blanca copy that I´ve checked. At around 3.500 € it is truly a good and worthy guitar, but its sound is not a Reyes! After the show I was talking to Johannes by Mundo Flamenco. He also is convinced that nobody can copy the sound of a Reyes. He also had one or two Francisco NavarroReyes copies and told me the same. The NavarroReyes is a very good flamenca but it doesn´t sound like a Reyes. To be honest I have to say I haven´t yet the possibility to check a NavarroReyes.
I think there is a package of marketing behind the idea of copying a great brand. It generates more attention the guitar maker.
Just to make a note that Vicente used few different pickup systems live, in last 5 months, and most of you have seen him on frontlines on spanish magazines reg. Cordoba Concert on Sept. 21. with a funny small black sensor on Reyes top ... that is a custom made one, and was mixed like 60% or more with Shoeps microphone, you can see videos on youtube how great the sound was (Lauren Serrano on main mixer), I was sitting next to the mixer and had pleasure to enjoy the fullbodied amplified guitar sound, as if one hears the total wood vibrations, incl. each detail of maestro's touch, always hearable tone difference whether Amigo played more towards bridge on few cm direction neck, great to see him enjoying own song creations relaxed ... he very much relies on Lauren, and a custom pickup(s) what is in his own words " a revolution", I am a technician and amps maker, so not allowed to say more about it ....
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)... as well as a mini preamp which is glued inside the guitar. You can see it on his website. The system he has developed for Vicente is quite originally called the "Vicente" model! 
It retails for €900 (including installation) which is not cheap at all, but it's supposed to be really really good. Here's Carlos' website: 
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