What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Full Version)

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Pgh_flamenco -> What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 9:25:28)

Who won? It’s been a long time since anyone has even mentioned it.



pacowannab -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 9:36:47)

Yeah! What happened.? Last thing I recall is Ricardo had the the lead by a nose heading into the final turn, with a "dark horse" (possibly Todd K?) preparing to steal the race at the line. ("It's Bucky and Daddy, ... Daddy and Bucky, ...it's....it's ... it's..... Bucky the Wonder Horse by a nose.)



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:07:48)

Somebody mentioned Grisha stepping in at the last moment and winning if he chose to learn the song.



Ron.M -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:08:51)

It just kinda lost momentum I think...

For myself, I managed to work out a more manageable version which I could play fairly slowly...

At that point my interest started waning..

That is TRULY my worst habit...with everything!

I work for weeks trying to "get" a falseta, then once I see how it's done I never really practse it...I just get interested in something else..

For sure I could never be a pro...[:D][:D]
I don't have any material.

Anyone else like that?

cheers,

Ron



Florian -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:12:34)

quote:

Anyone else like that?


i was just thinking that today...i got like a million great starts and 1 falseta, i keep starting all this stuff and then i lose momentum or cant find something that matches the intro or that i like as much as i like the intro so i dont add anything and move on..



i wish i could do a whole cd of 2 minutes tracks



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:13:16)

quote:

I work for weeks trying to "get" a falseta, then once I see how it's done I never really practse it...I just get interested in something else..

For sure I could never be a pro...
I don't have any material.

Anyone else like that?


I end up losing enthusiasm for most of the songs that were my favorites after I learn them.



XXX -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:32:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

I end up losing enthusiasm for most of the songs that were my favorites after I learn them.


Pure luxury. I loose enthusiasm for a falseta before i learn it! Or to be more precise, i always find another falseta which attracts me more, and then another, another...
Result is i can play millions of falsetas, but none until the end.

It wasent always like that. When i started i had no (modern) flamenco albums, nothing that could distract my attention.



cathulu -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 10:55:44)

Yes, it lost momentum. But wasn't the winner to be crowned foro flamenco guitarist of the year? Is that not a worthy enough goal to finish it off? Will it be awarded by acclamation to Ricardo cause iirc he is the only one who actually uploaded anything? Ron, if you have a workable version, you might win, as everyone else may not...



Ron.M -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 11:36:47)

cathulu,

Sadly the trophy account was held at Lehman Bros....[:o]


cheers,

Ron


Edit: How about the PdL "La Malagueña" for this year? [:D]



Matic -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 13:20:13)

quote:

Edit: How about the PdL "La Malagueña" for this year?


Seriously[:)],
How about a Monthly Challenge?
Every month (or two) a Foroflamenco Board of Commissioners[:)] (a bunch of knowledgeable people) select a falseta that we learn.
Falsetas should be of various palos and chosen carefully so we all get the most out by learning them.
I think we have quite a few great teachers and professionals here who would want to share their pedagogical knowledge and experience. It would be a start of a new dimension of this foro I think.

What do you think?

[:)]



Mark2 -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 14:32:57)

Yeah, I learned it all except the picado at the end, but never sounded good on almost ANY of it. It's hard and it's really fast. I'd get one or two falsetas sounding good then not pick up the guitar for a month and poof, it's gone. My vote goes to Ricardo-he uploaded a complete version that sounded pretty damm good-the best I heard anyway. Honorable mention to Duende for sure. Too bad about the trophy. :-) I'm glad I spent the time I did on it though, so it was all good.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

It just kinda lost momentum I think...

For myself, I managed to work out a more manageable version which I could play fairly slowly...

At that point my interest started waning..

That is TRULY my worst habit...with everything!

I work for weeks trying to "get" a falseta, then once I see how it's done I never really practse it...I just get interested in something else..

For sure I could never be a pro...[:D][:D]
I don't have any material.

Anyone else like that?

cheers,

Ron

[:D]



Mark2 -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 14:37:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

Edit: How about the PdL "La Malagueña" for this year? [:D]



Are you a masochist? The best version of the piece I ever heard though. Probably I'd have to make a deal at the crossroads to play it anything like Paco.



Arash -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 14:47:54)

For some strange reason, i can not evolve enough motivation to participate in a challenge where members like Ricardo, Grisha, Todd, etc. are also participating! [:D]

Its like a boxing match where lightweights have to fight against Heavyweights.

There should be a seperate Challenge for these few members and another one for the "rest" of us [;)]



val -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 15:50:57)

quote:

How about a Monthly Challenge? Every month (or two) a Foroflamenco Board of Commissioners (a bunch of knowledgeable people) select a falseta that we learn

How about setting the challenge to be within the reach of beginners and the wannabes who never quite get round to practising (sound familiar anyone?). The Board get to post a tab and a sound file (of how it's SUPPOSED to sound) and set a deadline for submission. It might actually motivate people like me to start PLAYING some Flamenco instead of reading about, or listening to it.

Competitors have to sign a contract, with penalties for entrants who fail to post by the deadline. I notice Florian is off the bench - welcome home amigo. I'm sure Florian would be very happy write the penalty clause.



Exitao -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 16:53:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: val

quote:

How about a Monthly Challenge? Every month (or two) a Foroflamenco Board of Commissioners (a bunch of knowledgeable people) select a falseta that we learn

How about setting the challenge to be within the reach of beginners and the wannabes who never quite get round to practising (sound familiar anyone?). The Board get to post a tab and a sound file (of how it's SUPPOSED to sound) and set a deadline for submission. It might actually motivate people like me to start PLAYING some Flamenco instead of reading about, or listening to it.

Competitors have to sign a contract, with penalties for entrants who fail to post by the deadline. I notice Florian is off the bench - welcome home amigo. I'm sure Florian would be very happy write the penalty clause.


If I look at your post, and Arash's this makes me think that we should have, like, weight classes.
Maybe someone could post a beginner's version, intermediate version, and advanced version of the same piece (or maybe different pieces at different levels, but maybe the same palo).
I like the idea of one piece with three versions, then we could use it as a progressive study.

Also, the judges can tell people when they should move up a weight class. It may be that some people are better than they know... (Or it could be like American Idol, and people will be told to drop a class...)

However, I must say that I'm unsure as to how I'm supposed to feel about the
quote:

the wannabes who never quite get round to practising (sound familiar anyone?)
statement. Am I supposed to disconnect my webcam when not in use?
[8|]



Florian -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 18:28:26)

quote:

I notice Florian is off the bench - welcome home amigo.


Hi Val [:)] thank you very much for always [;)]

quote:

There should be a seperate Challenge for these few members and another one for the "rest" of us


The idea of competition, is to push yourself ...if you can allready win it now you havent really gained anything..

We dont wanna get into the whole classes thing ...i know i dont wanna decide for others what classes i think they should be.. people can feel insulted if i get it wrong or others feel will feel intimidated if they choose to compete on a higher class simply because they wanna push themselfs harder....its not for us to determine peoples limitations...it spells nothing but arguments and ignorance on our side if we pressume to tell them what they can and cant do.



for one thing I doubt Grisha will be around for all of this or any of it...he hasent exactly been posting much lately , i assume hes busy with stuff

i say one competition for everyone one class, the idea is the aim higher anyway...or at the most 2 classes...1 beginner - intermediate and class for the rest. (members should decide themselfs wich they wish to compete in )

I think the falsetas should be voted on or we should take turns nominating them or make polls to cover all different tastes..it helps when u learn a falseta you acctualy like yourself and can actualy use...they dont always have to be technically challenging, they can also be musically chalenging, rithmically chalenging, achiving the right feel can be a challenge etc....there should defenetly be the Moraito buleria aire challenge ..

when judging we should disregard as much as possible (equipment quality...audio quality, it has nothing to do with the challenge...ofcourse it will be impossible to ignore all of it, we are human but we should stay concious of the fact that its just logistics, we should try to remain fair and judge only on the current post as much as posible )

i am sure theres other things we should consider and we can decide on it if we decided to go ahead with this...but i think its a good idea..sometimes its hard to find the motivation unless you are preparing for something...everyone would benefit from this.

i vote a challenge every 2 months as more doable...1 month goes by very very fast it will be eazy to get confused, etc..


but anyway this is just some of my opinions, everyone should vote for themselfs



Grisha -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 19:35:43)

Yes, Flo, I've been busy and haven't been participating in anything lately. But I still check this site out from time to time. I'd love to participate in a challenge. I have been playing this buleria since early 90-s. But maybe, we should concentrate not on technique, but creativity. For example, who modifies and personalizes "El tempul" (or part of it) in the most creative way. By changing rhythms, harmonies, ornaments, etc.



Florian -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 19:46:48)

you ba*tard [:D] dont say anything for months and the one time you say something is just as i said u not here lol


i love the idea about creativity !!!..but i think we should start fresh to encourage new members joining in with a fair chance...something else, something noone has a head start in....how about a nino de pura fandangos picado [&:] ?



Exitao -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 19:51:27)

Flo:
When you look at books of repertoire, there's usually beginner, intermediate and advanced material.

I don't see how there's any harm in labelling it as such. Definitely, those of you guys who play professionally, should probably be in your own (advanced) category. Maybe Grisha's suggestion should be for the advanced players, y'all can change the arrangement.

Then again, maybe if people vote, it should be based on criteria, which totals up to a score, but people can also win for most creative, or expressive (duende?), or best technical...

There's a difference between being challenged by a piece and setting yourself up for failure. The way I see it, more people would likely be advised to try for harder levels than to try something easier. I doubt anyone would be unkind. Except when we talk about you, Flo.


[8D]



Florian -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 19:57:01)

quote:

Except when we talk about you, Flo


well .....us goodlooking people are not very well liked [&:][;)]..jk. i dont know what you talking about 99.9 of everyone has been more than kind to me ..


sure i am open to anything that seems fairer to anyone, i am not interested in beeing right, just fair and get as many people involved, if you guys are in agrement that its fairer another way i am more then happy to support that, majority rules ( the most important thing is that we do it rather then spend too much time talking about it...we will learn from the first one on what is and isnt fair)..but i dont wanna decide anyones level, or tell them what challenge should take everyone should pick for themselfs

it sounds fun



at_leo_87 -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 22:12:49)

beginner, intermediate, advanced.
what about a "special" class. as in special olympics.
for people like me.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 24 2009 22:22:51)

quote:

what about a "special" class. as in special olympics.


One already exists--it's called country music.



Pimientito -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 1:20:38)

quote:

the most important thing is that we do it rather then spend too much time talking about it


This is coming from the guy who spent 2 entire forum pages writing about why he didnt want to learn "El tempul"[:D][:D]

The thing is that there are members here at different levels from complete beginners to recorded professionals. Whatever gets picked, there is always going to be someone who doesnt like the choice but I like the Matic/ Vals idea a lot of having a monthly falseta or a beginners challenge and a seperate more advanced challenge. Saying that the harder challenge should be possible to perform by more than Ricardo and Grisha on this forum. Ron - you are obviously not feeling very well to even suggest that Malgueña. Niño de pura is out too.

How about a Sabicas piece or one of the Manolo Sanlucar (pre tauromagia) studies. Both technically demanding but not impossible. If we choose one that is little known ie (not sabicas farruca) then that would be a good challenge.

Just my idea. I'll leave it to you guys to decide which one though.



Pimientito -> [Deleted] (Jan. 25 2009 1:22:09)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 25 2009 1:23:12



XXX -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 2:20:09)

what really would be cool is to hear ONE falseta (per month or two) interpreted in different ways. Thats the benefit of this forum. Everybody has tabs or videos and his own plan on what to play next. And its really alot to learn. But normally you dont have more than two versions of it: the original and your version.



Stu -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 2:38:43)

quote:

I like the Matic/ Vals idea a lot of having a monthly falseta or a beginners challenge and a separate more advanced challenge


I like that too.

and it sounds more of a possibility than a whole piece. for me anyways

bring it on..... who would decide on the falsetas? moderators? or group vote of 3 or 4 submitted falsetas??



Ron.M -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 3:05:34)

I would be happy for Florian to organise and manage something if he's willing and has the time.

cheers,

Ron



Gummy -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 3:57:18)

Well, I think the idea of more competitions is a good one. I think some are missing the point though. It is not for us beginners to try to beat the greats here on playing a song, though that can be attempted just for fun. The goak is to give us all a look into a specific song to try to pick out whatever we can to learn from etc. I remember Ron saying that it would be good for all levels of players to learn at least one falsetta and upload that to challenge their own abilities as well. I think a month is too short(not enough time and it wont seem special) of a time period and a year is too long because we lose sight of the end. How about quarterly maybe?
Rod



NormanKliman -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 4:43:43)

Hi guys, just a suggestion:

You can just continue posting every so often about bits and pieces, like Ron's tangos alzapúa not long ago. An entire piece is going to be too hard for beginners anyway.

How about Sanlúcar's zapateado Los Caireles? It's on Recital Flamenco. I've got a transcription that you can use, if you like.



mark indigo -> RE: What Happened to the El Tempul Challenge? (Jan. 25 2009 9:13:00)

i wouldn't mind having a go at that regardless of "challenge"!

i can't as yet post audio so would have to seriously look into getting some wires, and maybe software (?) before i could take up challenge



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