Ricardo -> RE: HELP - E Phrygian Question (Claude Worms) (Jan. 7 2009 9:27:59)
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: John O. quote:
No sharps or flats means they are all E phrygian. The same group of notes a C major (aka C Ionian). The Greek modes are 7 different names for the same group of 7 notes. Here C major is the group. You can simplify you life by just accepting that C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian and B Locrian are all just names that describe no sharps or flats. Add one sharp (f#)and you have they key of G major. G Ionian, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian, F# Locrian. Add 2 sharps (f#,c#) and you have the key of D major. D Ionian, E Dorian, F# Phrygian, G Lydian, A Mixolydian, B Aeolian, C# Locrian. Hey Jason, Ricardo an others, the above is about where my knowledge of this theory stops. As a teen I remember memorizing these modes as a loop that closes at the 12th fret that you can spin how you want as long as you keep the order the same. What I'm missing is: how does the popular circle of 5ths help me besides for knowing which key sheet music is in? How does this connect to key changes within a piece or to understanding how a piece like "Cadencia" from Cañizares theoretically works? 7ths are clear to me (if maybe not completely), but there are 6ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, augmented and diminished, and so on and so on. True if one wants to just play traditional flamenco it's not necessary, but if one wants to create modern things like you guys do, what of the complex theory has helped you get there? There's a lot I got out through guesswork and learning pieces, I just have a problem with doing things I can't explain to myself or others, and I don't want to tell someone "well PDL, Tomatito and Chucuelo did it - that's why it works..." [8|] On the other hand, I wonder how well the three could explain it themselves. The circle of 5th shows relationships between key signature, scale or mode, and even harmony. Away to "use" the circle of 5ths is to think of chord progressions of songs. Look at the wheel jason posted above. Notice major keys outside, minor keys (lower case) inside. Imagine those were CHORDS. major chords outside, minor chords inside. So any group of 6 chords, outline a "key" or imply a scale/key signature as a group. For example look at the group Eb,Bb,F,c,g,d. OK? If those were chords, you could relate melodies to all those chords using a scale with two flats. You could call the "key" Bb major if you wanted, but you could focus on a different chord as tonic and you some modal key perhaps. Either way, you can't escape the fact that using all 6 of those chords allows you to get away with having just 2 flats to relate everything. Now if you wanted to change key, say by a 5th, well just look outside the group of 6 chords. A C major chord or Aminor chord, or simply removing a flat from your scale (specifcally the Eb would be removed), shifts your tonal center a notch around the wheel, clockwise. That is how you can change keys, by introducing a new chord or scale. Thinking in reverse you can improvise over a set of chords, even just 2 chords, by understand how the chords relate. For example, a Gm chord and an Aminor chord could use just ONE scale if you wanted. As you can see as scale with ONE flat works for both. If you choose to play Gminor scale then A minor scale, you are deliberately ignoring the "relationship" the two chords have based on the circle of 5ths. And that maybe what you want. To go further you could pretend the G minor chord is from the scale with 3 flats, and A minor was from the scale that has one #. But the further you get away from relationg the chords close by as the wheel shows, the "weirder" or more far out your music will sound. The farthest or weirdest you can get form one key to another is straight across the wheel, the tritone. These concepts, when you experiment make you understand the "rules" or rather the reasons why keys and scales, chords, etc relate and sound "good" or "exotic" or whatever. About modes. IN modal music, true modal music, you need a drone for reference. learning "modes" on western instruments is really pointless IMO unless you HEAR them and feel them over top of some static drone or harmony. D dorian means nothing to me as a scale. You have to hear NO SHARPS AND FLATS, specifically over top of a D note or Dminor chord. Any other chord move, kills the modality of it all. Starting or ending on any certain note is not enough for my ear. And you need not start or end on any specific note to hear and feel the "dorian" vibe, so long as you have that drone or chord. In jazz pop rock classical whatever music that is WESTERN, in order to mimic modal music without a drone, you can to a one or at most TWO chord Vamp. Any more than that as a harmony and you kill the vibe of the mode, whatever it is. About extensions. As Jason said, stack 3rds to build a chord. After 7 notes you repeat note names in a scale, but if you stack 3rds you must go up to 13 to create all 7 notes. So a 13th chord, IS a mode! That is it. Any 13th chord gives you all the info you need musically to understand the key relation. So dorian is hearing a minor 13th chord. DFACEGB. So long as you keep the bass D, you hear dorian as a mode. So if you have a naked chord, or just a minor7th chord, you can "colorize" it modally, wiht your own extensions. Hear Dm7. Play a Bb over that and you hear Aeoliean. Play B natural and you hear Dorian. Play Eb over that and you hear phrygian. ETC. So experiment with the circle of 5ths by making up chord progressions and relating different scales to those chords. Ricardo
|
|
|
|