Who here French Polishes? (Full Version)

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TANúñez -> Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 0:28:44)

I know Aaron Green does. Anyone else?

I've decide to really take the time and make the effort to learn this method. I'm tired of lacquer, the smell of lacquer, all the prep work of lacquer, cleaning the equipment afterwards and trying to get the perfect temp. conditions, blah, blah, blah.

I feel French polishes keeps you more "connected" with your instrument. I guess it would be totally "handcrafted". Does this make sense? There is just a thrill to watching the beauty of the wood come out as you apply your polish. I know this method is just as time consuming if you want it done right.

I'm just curious about your opinions with FP vs. Lacquer. My first guitar had a FP top and lacquer back and sides. The luthier who was showing me the ropes, recommended I do this so I could see what was involved with both types of finish. As I FP'd the top, I found it to be very theraputic. It wasn't the best FP job as I was given a "crashcourse" in this methods but I did enjoy it.



Marcus Dominelli -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 7:24:21)

I french polish exclusively now. I used to do a combination of spray laquer and french polish.
It's a superior finish in terms of sound, appearance, and repairabilty of the instrument. But it does'nt work for everyone. Some players destroy french polish finishes really fast, no matter how thick they are applied.
If you want the finish to be more durable, try using the less refined grades of shellac, such as seed lac or orange shellac, and use walnut oil instead of parrafin oil as a lubricant when polishing.

Marcus Dominelli
Dominelli Guitars



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 10:00:17)

I used to French Polish but at this moment Antonio Ariza Hijo does for me.

I agree with marcus, and Tom, I think you know very well about the goods and the bads.

French Polish is tricky and time consuming, but I like the fact that you can eat what you aply[8D]. You might get drunk, but its not a danger to your health.

Go ahead Tom, French polish one. You can always put lacquer on top of the FP.



Per Hallgren -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 10:45:38)

I french polish all my instruments and have done so for twenty years. I agree that it is time consuming but is not a good lacquer that also? The big difference is that most of the time french polishing is a good meditating time when you can reach for the luthier's Nirvana, while killing yourself with lacquer and the nasty solvents never is enjoyable.



Stephen Rees -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 12:01:43)

Although french polishing is time consuming and sometimes frustrating (!) I think it is the only way to go for fine hand made instruments.

Here is a very useful link to help you........
http://milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html

atb
steve



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 13:49:35)

quote:

I french polish exclusively now. I used to do a combination of spray laquer and french polish.
It's a superior finish in terms of sound, appearance, and repairabilty of the instrument. But it does'nt work for everyone. Some players destroy french polish finishes really fast, no matter how thick they are applied.
If you want the finish to be more durable, try using the less refined grades of shellac, such as seed lac or orange shellac, and use walnut oil instead of parrafin oil as a lubricant when polishing.

Marcus Dominelli
Dominelli Guitars


Marcus,

Thanks for your input. Welcome to the foro. Your work is exquisite!



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 13:54:19)

quote:

I used to French Polish but at this moment Antonio Ariza Hijo does for me.

I agree with marcus, and Tom, I think you know very well about the goods and the bads.

French Polish is tricky and time consuming, but I like the fact that you can eat what you aply . You might get drunk, but its not a danger to your health.

Go ahead Tom, French polish one. You can always put lacquer on top of the FP.


What I'd like to know is how Antonio applies an orange FP but manages to leave the rosette clear. I thought I knew how he did it but I'm not so sure. Has he told you?



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 14:00:38)

quote:

The big difference is that most of the time french polishing is a good meditating time when you can reach for the luthier's Nirvana


Per,

Now THAT is what I'm talking about. Must be nice to experience this after all the construction work is done. This would be like a reward at the end.



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 14:03:56)

quote:

Although french polishing is time consuming and sometimes frustrating (!) I think it is the only way to go for fine hand made instruments.

Here is a very useful link to help you........
http://milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html


Hi Steve,

Thanks for the link. I had seen it some time back but forgot to bookmark it was was never able to find it since. Very useful.



Taranto -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 14:32:04)

A lot of new luthiers use Danish oil with no pore filling and the guitars look damn good.
I'm planning to use Tru-oil together with Birchwood-Casey sealer/filler. Not that it is the same as Danish oil but because Tru-oil is far more protective.

I've heard both Tru-oil and Danish oil have little to no influence on guitar sound.



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 14:37:36)

quote:

A lot of new luthiers use Danish oil with no pore filling and the guitars look damn good.
I'm planning to use Tru-oil together with Birchwood-Casey sealer/filler. Not that it is the same as Danish oil but because Tru-oil is far more protective.

I've heard both Tru-oil and Danish oil have little to no influence on guitar sound.


Taranto,

I'm not familiar with Danish oil. Is it thick enough that it fills pores at the same time?



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 14:39:04)

I thought of a question after reading Tarantos post. When French polishing cypress, do you just skip the pore filling stage since cypress is unlike rosewood?



Taranto -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 15:08:34)

quote:

Is it thick enough that it fills pores at the same time?


No, it's just that they don't want to fill pores. Here are some pictures:
http://www.jameslisterguitars.co.uk/ListerGuitars/Galleries.htm



Per Hallgren -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 15:22:36)

Usually I skip the pore filling when polishing cypress but I try to give the rosewood binding extra attention and pressure. Usually I manage to fill the binding only through polishing with schellack. But sometimes when I have a rosewood wedge at the back as in the picture I can choose to mask the cypress while filling, then polish as usual.



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TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 15:29:35)

Very nice Per. That wedge adds a nice contrast to the cypress.



stephen hill -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 18:10:37)

I've done all the finishes, even plastic coating..(help) but keep returning to the french polishing. It needs time tho, and likes to sit for weeks, sinking into rosewood grain, and then continue. Its easy to do it too quickly, although tempting at times when a delivery is near and the fridge is empty!
I now take 6 weeks to polish a guitar, sometimes more with rosewood. It is very enjoyable and gives me a lot of contact with the guitar to get to know it well. I use olive oil now as a lubricant and use pummice for grain filling and then cutting down as I load up. I also use tripoli powder but lost my bag of it when caught in a recent storm, along with a bunch of other stuff, including my life....!



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 20:47:26)

Thanks for your input Stephen. Since it takes you 6 weeks, do you polish several guitars during this time?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 3 2007 21:10:18)

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TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 3 2007 23:08:55)

Shroomy,

I think the length of time of FP varies from maker to maker. FP is applied by hand and lacquer is usually sprayed. Is this what you mean by "how does it work"?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2007 2:04:36)

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TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 4 2007 3:08:17)

As Stephen Rees posted earlier, this will tell you everything about FP.

http://milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html

If you have the time, it's very interesting.

As for the engineering aspect of things, I'll let the more experienced answer that one.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2007 3:41:15)

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Stephen Rees -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 5 2007 17:42:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726

Why does French Polishing take 6 weeks?


Although polishing may take 6 weeks or more total time, I estimate that the 'man-hours' actually working on the guitar during this time would add up to about 7-10 days for a rosewood guitar, and a little less for cypress. The rest of the time the guitar needs to be left alone so that the polish can gas-out, sink into the grain, etc., and finally left to harden as much as possible (min 3 weeks at this time of year) before final burnishing.

Which is exactly what this one is doing right now !!..........[:)]



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TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 5 2007 19:13:16)

So after it's been French Polished, how long does it take before it can be shipped to it's owner?



Stephen Rees -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 5 2007 21:02:40)

Pretty quickly really ..... I will spend the best part of a day doing burnishing, cleaning up (saddle/nut slot, fingerboard edges, string roller holes, etc.) and final finishing, then the following day I will fit tuners and do the final setup ready for delivery.

Ideally I would like to hold on to the guitar for a few days after stringing up to make sure I'm happy with it, and to hear what it sounds like after it's had time to settle in a little, but this is not always possible.

The french polish is still not fully hard at this time and will continue to harden over the following weeks/months/years.

Cheers
steve



TANúñez -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 6 2007 1:20:19)

Thought of something else for you guys. Do you all FP with the bridge already installed or finish the bridge seperately then install?



Stephen Rees -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 6 2007 2:10:20)

Of the makers I know there is about a 50:50 split.

It is certainly easier to polish without the bridge !

Some carefully mask the area with tape and others lightly score around the bridge and scrape away the polish before gluing. This is much easier with thin FP than with sprayed finishes.

If you glue on the bridge before polishing at least you can string up and listen to the guitar before polishing, and you have the chance to sand the top if it needs more flexibilty, but it does make polishing difficult close to the bridge.
Before gluing the the bridge onto the unpolished guitar I seal the bridge with a couple of spit coats of shellac so that the rosewood doesn't bleed into the spruce, install, and then polish it along with the rest of the guitar.

I find it rewarding to hear the guitar as soon as possible ..... it gives me a warm feeling every time !

Cheers



Ricardo -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 6 2007 6:07:38)

How can you tell from photos if a guitar was FP or Laquer? And which expensive top line flamenco makers use Laquer intead of FP?



Per Hallgren -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 6 2007 7:42:02)

Tom, I always glue on the bridge before polishing since I want to play the guitar for a month or two before deciding if the guitar need some fine tuning. I don't find it particularly difficult to polish the guitar with the bridge on although it certainly is easier without.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Who here French Polishes? (Nov. 6 2007 8:25:19)

Tom, I polished with the bridge on and so do Antonio. He uses 3- 4 weeeks and I leave the guitar for a week before finishing it. Then another 4 - 7 days with strings on to check that everything is ok, (and to play and enjoy it[:D] before it goes away)

Ricardo.
I cant see the difference on a photo and even in "nature" you have to look very well in order to se what is what. All depends on the laquer.

Most Madrid makers use Lacquer, most Granada builders FP. The builders here use both, and outside Spain, I donnt know.



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