hands or tentacles? help needed (Full Version)

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Ailsa -> hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 25 2007 22:00:19)

Does this happen to anyone else? I've just come back from a lesson and I feel like giving up and selling my guitars on ebay.[&o] I practised really hard between lessons, and it was almost beginning to sound like something. And then I sat in front of my teacher and it sounded like my hands had turned into tentacles. I was so disappointed in myself. [:(][:(]

Guys please tell me I'm not the only one who has bad playing days. Sorry, I'm just feeling really sorry for myself. All support welcome [8|]

A



tmock -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 25 2007 22:22:57)

Ailsa, don't give up! You're definitely not alone.

Practices were always nerve-wracking for me because the teacher isn't just enjoying your music like it was a performance. He's evaluating and critiquing everything you do. Don't let it make you quit, though. See it as another challenge - to learn how to perform.

Also, here is a little tip that I heard from a classical cellist and that has worked for me. Whenever you feel nervous about a performance or upset about how you played, pick up the guitar and play the simplest thing you possibly can (a really slow solea pulgar falseta, or some deep taranta chords, or something). Play that thing that every player has that makes their guitar sound especially good. Just keep playing that and without really thinking about anything - just enjoy the sound. Eventually the stress will go away and you'll remember that you really love the guitar and that you can actually make it sound quite nice! Then when you're totally at ease, circle back to the falsetas and techniques that are giving you trouble.

I don't know, that may sound stupid, but it works for me.

Hope it helps, [:)]
Travis.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 25 2007 22:23:23)

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JBASHORUN -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 25 2007 23:48:03)

quote:

Point of story, flamenco is HARD, and the only way you will be good is by practice, practice and more practice...


So true. Believe me, I know! [;)]

Ailsa, if it was just because you were in front of your teacher that you messed up, then it might be nerves. Try practising whilst playing for an audience... even if its just your family at home.

Otherwise, everyone has bad playing days. Some days we're just not in the right frame of mind. But the more you practise, the easier it is to overcome the natural tendancy to be uncontrolled.

Good luck!

Jb



JDiaz -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 3:17:19)

just don't give up. even if you think you're playing bad. like the others said, we all have off days! Nobody is perfect except maybe Paco;) Hope you can turn things around!



gato -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 3:49:31)

Really great string! Ailsa, sometimes you can't hear your self and it's a matter of loosing all that self esteem to inhibition. I battle with it constantly, there are days when I can't seem to play as well, even without the distraction, and self doubt drags me down, and there are days when I can really hear the music and I like what I'm doing, every musician has to deal with that. When you loose that self apreciaton, the technique follows, and you just can't seem to play. Just learn to live with it, and know that when you play sometimes you are better than you feel. And there are days when you feel 'right on the money' and every thing is grand!



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 7:25:06)

Thanks guys. Your support really appreciated. Feeling slightly less tearful this morning [:)][:)]



John O. -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 7:42:17)

I'll VERY often play and think "Where have I put all the hours of practise?" Then I try to play left handed and it helps me remember... [:D]

Even playing something for a buddy will be much different than playing alone in your room - this needs to be practised as well! Not to mention stress, anything on your mind, diet, how you've slept and nervousness will all influence how you play as well as how you THINK you play!

I'd suggest playing for friends as much as possible. Especially if they don't play flamenco it will usually blow them away and boost your confidence.

The desperation you're feeling at the moment is normal and what keeps most great artists working hard and striving to be better, which is why they've gotten so good. You'll have to learn to deal with it without falling too deep into a hole.

You know very well you won't sell your guitars, you'll be up all night this week practising... [;)]

John



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 7:50:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John O.

You know very well you won't sell your guitars, you'll be up all night this week practising... [;)]



Hehehe, yeah you know me too well already!! It's an addiction, how could I give it up?[:D][:D]

Think your suggestion of playing for friends is a good one. I do tend to hide away to practice. I even apologise to the cats when I get something wrong.... [&:][&:]



Haithamflamenco -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 10:38:34)

hi alisa,

we all pass over those days and times,

just want to tell u that one time i saw a blind flamenco player in tomatito master class and i was so amazed,

and here watch this player who have no hands and he playes with his feets,

just imagine no hands and he never give up:



so, just keep practicing and give it a time alisa,

nothing is impossple,


haitham ole[;)]



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 11:40:32)

I found the thread [:)]

...Everyone gets nervous in front of theyr teacher lol ( well i did anyway)

And you never ever sound as good in front of someone as you do at home by yourself [:D]

what you are feeling is 100 % natural IMO

it comes with experience playing in front of people ... you learn to control your nerves and learn to sound about 80 % as good as you do at home ( on a good day depending who and how many are watching)



SO my advice to you.... just play better [8|] that will solve all your problems.



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 11:48:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

just play better [8|] that will solve all your problems.


Hell Flo, why didn't I think of that? [8|] What a sweetie you are - so supportive [;)][;)][:D]



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 11:57:40)

[:D] I joke with you ..

but its true its 100 % natural what you are felling IMO

I for one would be heart broken if you left flamenco guitar and exp foro, you add something very pleasant to the forum.

I dont wanna go back to a forum without Ailsa, ... I CANT !! I WONT ![;)]

I wake up all excited and run to my computer every morning to see what you wrote, and i always brush my teeth twice when i know u gonna be here [:D]



Stu -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 13:41:28)

Hey Ailsa,

I've been pondering starting a similar thread.

I don't get the tentacle thing as much with my teacher, but I do get nights when I'm playing alone where I simply cant seem to play anything right.

Somedays I will play without really warming up and I feel great about my playing and my hands seem to do the right thing without me even thinking about it. Then on other days, no matter how much I warm up NOTHING WORKS!!

Like John O. says if I'm Tired, Stressed etc my playing suffers. If I'm relaxed, awake then things work better.

Keep plugging away Ailsa!!
You've got plenty of peeps here with the same trials and tests to overcome. we are with ya!!

Stu



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 14:24:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

I for one would be heart broken if you left flamenco guitar and exp foro,


Aw, that's so sweet. And you know I feel the same about you guys, I just wanted you to say it first. [;)][;)]



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 14:32:33)

Hi Stu,

Yeah I've realised now that I'm not the only one that has 'off' days. I think last night I was tired - had a stressful day at work etc. Just that I had practised really hard and felt like I'd made a bit of a breakthrough, and then it just disappeared on me. My teacher didn't seem very bothered about what I felt was slow progress - just me.

Anyway, I've put my toys back in the pram now, and I'll be picking up my guitar again this evening.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

A
xx



TANúñez -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 14:41:26)

Alisa,

Like everyone else said, it happens. I would even forget pieces. Pieces that I knew and played over and over at home. During my lesson, I would just blank out. All this stuff happens until you get used to playing in front of someone often.

I would just tell myself, I'm the student, I'm supposed to be bad. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here paying someone to teach me. [:)] That made me feel better.

Don't feel bad about having tentacle fingers. Vicente Amigo does. Have you ever seen his hands?
[:D]



guitardode -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 15:58:35)

yes agree with all this post flamenco is no easy mans (or womans)music .A old guitarist I met in Seville said his first 30 years were the hardest!! often the magic isnt there but when it is ..well you know the rest.............!



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 16:08:29)

Hey man, you've found out how to take caps lock off! Look at that gorgeous lower case writing you've done![:D][:D]

Just teasing. [;)][;)] Appreciate you taking time to reply. Thanks for your support.

A



Haithamflamenco -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 26 2007 20:10:29)

ole alisa[;)]



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? - update (Jul. 27 2007 0:03:13)

OMG I've just done some practice, and my playing was soooooooo much better than last night. [:@][:@] Now why couldn't it have been like that at my lesson?[8|][8|] Sigh.

Guys thanks so much for your messages and helpful suggestions. Think I'll hold off on selling my guitars for a bit......[;)][:D]

A
xx



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? - update (Jul. 27 2007 8:20:04)

quote:

OMG I've just done some practice, and my playing was soooooooo much better.


theres no need to get arrogant now [:D]



gato -> RE: hands or tentacles? - update (Jul. 27 2007 8:39:34)

See! I knew it! Now just try to remember that it's going to be like this, and from time to time you will have your ups and downs just like everyone else....



Ricardo -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 27 2007 15:58:08)

Just got back from classes with Gerardo Nuñez in Sanlucar. Every class I was either a little hung over or still drunk from partying the night before. But the thing that sobers you up is when you get called on to demonstrate something simple like rasgueado or a simple rhythm. Suddenly you are wide awake and aware your hands feel like dead fish![:D][:D] And I know I am not the only one in that class that feels like that![;)]

Ricardo



PacoPaella -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 27 2007 16:24:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John O.

Even playing something for a buddy will be much different than playing alone in your room

Its even worse - even playing alone can turn into a nightmare, once you turn the microphone on and start recording! That is a good way to get rid of that Virus called
StageFright1.0 . Record your own playing as often as possible, and listen to it later on critically because the guitar sounds very different from where the mic stands than from behind it.

Another approach is to conciously avoid overly difficult pieces. Since i really dislike the trend of playing fast and difficult for the sake of showing off technique instead of any musical message (lets call it the Nino de Pura effect [;)]), its a painless sacrifice for me. And stuff that you can play with 60% focus easily, wont suffer from stage fright as much as those huper modern picado runs at 290 that you make once every fifteen attempts, in practise.



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 28 2007 4:11:27)

quote:

(lets call it the Nino de Pura effect ),



[:D] [:D] Ouch

SO what you are saying is stay away from technically challenging pieces (even if you acctualy like them and is the kind of music u wish to play) unless you can play em perfect the first time ? play something you are not that much into for the sake of beeing right and approved ?

quote:

Since i really dislike the trend of playing fast and difficult for the sake of showing off technique


Yeah none of the flamenco guitarists we look up to do that lol

beeing a performer IS beeing a show off, flamenco guitar is about showing off unique flamenco technique as much as it is telling a musical story..
If you dont wanna show off u got no bussines playing in front of people cause noone pays money to see you do something they can do or to see you beeing shy.

and yeah what a shock you wont be able to do something technically challenging right the way it sounds on the cd the first 200 or 300 times u try, i gues i better stop and go play a beginner piece i can play but it does nothing for my enjoyment [:D]... or i could keep practicing this challenging piece better and slower and keep working at it until i get it ???? hmm what to do [:)].. what will make me happyer and get me closer towards playing the kind of music i love playing ?


People like paco , gerardo , tomatito , vicente inspire us, theyr music inspire us why is it showing off asspiring to play like them ? however wrong we do it ?. we are also fans.

u call it showing off, i say trying to play the music u love and most of the time for the reason you got into flamenco guitar, because 70 % of people here didnt get into flamenco guitar because they heard a perfectly played beginner flamenco piece and were inspired. most of the time is the Pacos, and Tomatitos impressive technical pieces that inspire us and stand out.

its up to you to find the smartest way to get there, and change paths if you are not making progress, but progress dosent just happen naturally, u will sound like crap for a long time probably..and you will have to step out of your confort zone... so what.., id rather sound like crap for years on the way to beeing the guitarist i wanna be and play the music i love to play rather than spending one day beeing the guitarist i dont wanna be and play music i dont like, I am not a program , i reserve the right to be wrong on my own terms.


nothing wrong if you prefer less technicall pieces but to say that other that do is showing off is not exactly correct or fair either.

last time i checked even Nino de Pura is a great flamenco guitarist respected by his peers, and also last time i cheked Every guitarist does picado, it is a certified flamenco technique.

PacoPaella, i know that Nino remark was not directed at me indirectly ( i hope lol) so my post is not beeing defensive to myself. Just using "I" to describe another point of view... mine, i am very much on the other side of your view.

Most of the time it is smart and practical to think with your head more than with your heart, but in this case they are wrong.
This is Music, the art of teling a story trough a melody thinking with your heart and doing what you love cannot possibly be wrong, u cannot leave your heart out of this one. Trying to tell a story you dont yourself belive will always leave you uninspired and empthy...... even if you got a great technique or are beeing practical or recive a pat on the back here [:)]

life is way to short to not be yourself for the sake of beeing right

most times is the uncaculated risktakers that tell a more honest story that touches, than the calculated.. Lets call them ( the tape recorders) who play perfect, but u cannot connect with the guitarist, and no personality comes out.

most important flamenco guitar technique, is the heart, weather you like simple or technically complicated guitar pieces. Many should start there, make sure you dont compromise your taste, for beeing practical and smart.. no matter what technique will come. If you keep slowing it down and keep playing guitar your technique does get better.

BE the happiest, worst guitarist in the world !!!..rather than the empthy , unsatified best player [:D][:D][:D]

play pieces you love not pieces you can its music its not financial planing



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 28 2007 9:24:29)

Hey Flo,

Well I wouldn't want to start an argument with you honey (or anyone - don't generally do arguing - waste of time/energy/life etc) but I do sort of see where Paco is coming from.

I spent a long time looking for a guitar teacher and met quite a few. What decided me was hearing a teaching recording from a particular teacher. He was playing a simple bit of tientos - nothing clever - and it was so clean, so perfect it took my breath away. And I thought, 'That is it! That is how I want to play!' But it was nothing fancy (though of course he can do all the clever stuff, and make it look like it's just a walk in the park [&o]).

Ironically, when I went for my first lesson and tried to explain what I wanted to achieve I'm not sure he understood! But that's art for you - can't explain everything in words.

What I would say though is that there are many ways to show off. I'm a terrible show off (whaddya mean, you'd noticed?[:D]) but what I want to show off at the moment is just some simple, beautiful, clean playing.

But look, we do agree about this.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

doing what you love cannot possibly be wrong, u cannot leave your heart out of this one. Trying to tell a story you dont yourself belive will always leave you uninspired and empthy

life is way to short to not be yourself for the sake of beeing right
BE the happiest, worst guitarist in the world !!!..rather than the empthy , unsatified best player [:D][:D][:D]


Woah you are one seriously deep dude!! I'm impressed. And I agree absolutely.

No offence meant Flo.

A
x



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 28 2007 9:55:21)

No offence taken at all Alisa, this is no argument, its a discussion, i can also see where Paco is coming from however ...

the point i was trying to make is, if that is what you like wonderfull.. but some like others. just because its different dosent make em show offs. Some have just as much right to not like Paco Pena as you do to not like EL Viejin for example.

I might not necesarely want to play what your teacher played, I might like to play something i heard on a cd, it might be more technically chalenging and it might take me longher to get it clean and play it as the cd, but i will be very happy knowing i am acctualy working on playing something i enjoy, i dont know if I enjoy beeing labeled a show off because of it.

point is I get inspired by music not by level of music i can play at, i might fail 500 attempts (obviously you going to fail , otherwise you would be EL Viejin) but when i get closer to it [:D] wow !! what a feeling

and regardless what anyone tryes to tell you, if you want it bad enough, practice long enough, and practice it slow, absoluteley anything is achivable for anybody.

its a waiste of time, to stop and do something else eazyer, still dosent help, thats just a quic fix so that next week you can get your approval here, but the problem still remains, you havent learned or worked on the falseta you love.

and again i realise that he might not have necesarely called me a show off, but still , it is calling someone a show off for exactly the same reasons and i just dont think its fair.



Ailsa -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 28 2007 10:24:58)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
i dont know if I enjoy beeing labeled a show off


Ah now I see. Well I don't think you are a show off because you want to play something more difficult than I do. It would be boring if we all wanted to play the same thing.

You are welcome to call me a show off if you like, because it's true - I enjoy performing for an audience, and I don't think it's a particularly terrible thing. Because I also like to appreciate other people's showing off, so it's sort of mutual. [:)]

Now if you called me nasty or worse still dull, I'd be reeeeally upset.[:(][:(]



Florian -> RE: hands or tentacles? help needed (Jul. 28 2007 10:34:54)

i know "show off" the word itself i have no problem with, as i said we all are show offs

its just the meaning behind it in this peticualr thread, meant to sound like its something negative.



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