RE: full size guitar plan (Full Version)

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flamenco_9 -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 6 2007 19:41:57)

hii Per Hallgren
you are Luthier too what you think...what can be done?



Per Hallgren -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 6 2007 20:13:06)

Actually I have nothing special to say. To say something meaningful would take too much time...



Anders Eliasson -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 8:41:01)

quote:

To say something meaningful would take too much time


LOL[:D]

I know what you mean. Luthiers are weird persons walking around alone in their little instrument world, touching woods and playing with their tools, using their intuition in order to make everything vibrate.
To put words on that................ impossible.

A very good guitar maker here in Granada told me the other day, that those guys writing books on taptuning etc. are normally the ones that have no idea on how to make an instrument sound. I dont know if its true but its interesting. Siminoff is famous for making Ovation guitars............ Anyone tried an Ovation Classical? I have..

Flamenco_9:

I dont think there´s anything you can do to make this plan more flamenco. Many plans can be used for flamenco guitars. You can make a Herman Hauser based guitar sound very flamenco, and Hauser most probably never made a flamenco guitar.

The plan you show, to me looks like a 5 fanned small Torres guitar which has been made asymetrical making the fans on the bass side thinner. This is a typical H&A thing.
Now its your turn do act. Build a guitar with this plan, make some photos, upload some mp3 and tell us what you think.[;)]



Per Hallgren -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 17:27:26)

quote:

A very good guitar maker here in Granada told me the other day, that those guys writing books on taptuning etc. are normally the ones that have no idea on how to make an instrument sound. I dont know if its true but its interesting. Siminoff is famous for making Ovation guitars............ Anyone tried an Ovation Classical? I have..


I agree with Manuel.[;)] IMO the whole concept of "taptuning" is misunderstood by many. First, everyone is tuning their boxes, even those who doesn't do it purposely. Second, there is no "Golden Rule" in tuning, i.e. a special tuning relation that makes the "best" guitar. Third, it is probably impossible to say if a guitar is good or not by only tapping the soundboard and back. Fourth, to know the principles of tuning is actually a very good tool for the maker to improve a guitar that has come out a little unbalanced in sound.

This is of course only my own personal faith. [:D]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 17:44:16)

quote:

I agree with Manuel.


Who´s Manuel? The guy I spoke to wasnt called Manuel. He wasnt even Spanish.

Per, maybe the difference is that you didn´t write a book about taptuning you just work it, meaning that according to what this guy said, there´s a chance you know how to make a guitar sound. [;)]

I also taptune, but to put it into words..................[X(]



Per Hallgren -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 18:06:21)

quote:

Who´s Manuel?


Just a joke... I was just guessing that you had met a man with a big brown Mercedes who know some about guitars. Sorry...bad joke.

quote:

Per, maybe the difference is that you didn´t write a book about taptuning you just work it, meaning that according to what this guy said, there´s a chance you know how to make a guitar sound.


I take that as a warning and a good advice. [:)]

quote:

I also taptune, but to put it into words..................


Yeah, let's shup up before someone try to squeeze it from us...[X(]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 18:40:06)

quote:

Yeah, let's shup up before someone try to squeeze it from us...


If we let them squeeze us, we might loose our capacity to build....... (according to this guy, you know... (no Mercedes))

No, I havent seen man with big brown Mercedes for some years[:D]



flamenco_9 -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 7 2007 18:53:58)

Anders Per....thanx alot for feedback.
though I dont know anything about building guitars and never make it before
but I have a feel that I can feel and understand the wood loool
my dream to build my guitar I hope it will come true oneday.
your talkings about taptuning is the same when flamenco start to spread and guitarist said it cant be written in notation, but now they are writting flamenco even though still the sheet dont sound like the real if we compared to classic.
I think taptune is like writting flamenco you can make formulas and notes but still there is some thing you cant write it.
sceince people who are the ones who are trying to make rules and formulas for everything and that help them to understand thing they cant feel and make their calculations.
if you notice most if not all guitar building books came from outside of spain
like here is arab world there are no book how to make oud but you can find american book.
I think it is good to study the rules they wrote and the formulas they calculated
and but it along with your expereices and feels, that will help you to creat something new.
look at this Kasha.....it is strange, right?
it is designed by a physisit.
I did not find any audio for that guitar yet.
have you hear it?
BTW it is classical guitar.



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Anders Eliasson -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 8 2007 9:43:51)

quote:

sceince people who are the ones who are trying to make rules and formulas for everything and that help them to understand thing they cant feel and make their calculations.

I totally agree. rules, formulas and calculations are good tools for making instruments, but if you cant feel what is right, it doesnt help you much. Intuition is a fantastic tool and higly underrated in all aspects in life, especially in the western world.

I´ve never heard a Kasha guitar, but it looks like fun if you like gluing and shaping braces.[:D]

Funny enough, this guy (who doesnt own a big brown Mercedes) also told me that Spanish classical guitarist nowadays wanted Spanish sound, meaning guitars based on the ideas of Torres. (flamenco guitars are based on Torres as well).
They werent interested in the volume of Kasha and especially Smallman. They said that these guitars lacked expression and thatthey prefered expression over volume....

In the end, its all a compromise, a balance.



jshelton5040 -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 8 2007 15:41:57)

I attended a lecture / demonstration by Kasha about 35 years ago. He stated his theories very convincingly but afterward I had the opportunity to play one of his guitars and was unimpressed. A very strange guitar built by a master craftsman named Schneider (who is deceased). The guitar had lead plugs in the head and end block which made it very heavy. There's a funny story about the interaction between Kasha and Ignacio Fleta. I wish I could find it in print so I could post it to the list.

John Shelton



flamenco_9 -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 8 2007 22:09:14)

yes Anders In the end, its all a compromise, a balance and that is the secrets.


hiii john
that is really strange fleta and kasha!!



Anders Eliasson -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 9 2007 10:18:06)

quote:

that is really strange fleta and kasha!!


They have one thing in common: They both liked to glue a lot of braces inside the guitar[;)]



flamenco_9 -> RE: full size guitar plan (May 12 2007 22:58:16)

yes Anders here is a french guy like to glue even more!



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