a_arnold -> RE: compas in flamenco vs Indian ragas (Apr. 20 2007 22:51:53)
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Ricardo -- I think you misunderstood. I said western notation isn't "readily amenable" to writing out complex rhythmic patterns -- not that it isn't "capable". My point was more subtle. Of course it is possible to write almost anything in western notation -- even microtonal (a western term) Indian music and the 31-note Greek "octave". Quartertone notation goes back to the time of Euripides, and modifications of the standard western notation are always being proposed to encompass musical innovations. Carillo's quartertone string quartets and Charles Ives' Chorale for Strings come to mind; they used a specialized modification of the standard notation. Partch modified notation to handle 43 unequal subdivisions of the octave, and Carillo went as far as 96 -- all superimposed on the 12 not octave system -- very much like a programmer's patch added on to expand an otherwise inadequate system. None of that ever got much traction. We still are hampered by relatively simple melodic and rhythmic conventions that are ill suited (not incapable) to express flamenco. Sorry -- I didn't mean to go all pedantic there. I agree, it is certainly possible to contort western notation to fit many flamenco compas (sometimes it doesn't even need to be contorted, as in farruca and zambra), but in most cases it it remains a contortion that is problematic even (especially?) for a trained classical musician to read. The reason is that flamenco (and sitar) players think in longer phrases (compas, tal) instead of short measures, and the phrases don't reliably begin on an emphasized beat. Writing much flamenco (say, bulerias compas) requires (1) alternating groups of 6/8 and 4/8 measures or 2/4 and 3/4 and (2) starting musical phrases off the first beat of the measure. Of course it can be done. But it becomes an unfamiliar contortion of a system that wasn't developed to handle it. Like using a hammer to drive in a screw. It works, but it's the wrong tool, developed for a different purpose. I guess I'm saying that it isn't just a matter of western notation not capturing the "feeling" of flamenco -- it doesn't capture the feeling of classical music either, for that matter. It does a pretty good job of capturing subtlety, but without interpretation music wouldn't be any fun. And there's a LOT more room for interpretation in flamenco and Indian music than in classical western music. And I think the reason is that western classical musical notation became codified with a different kind of music in mind. I don't know if the bulerias/alegrias/solea pattern has been successfully translated into western music. I know there are classical pieces called "Soleares" but they don't really sound like soleares, nor do they stick to the compas. Leonard Bernstein used a latin-sounding alternation of time signatures in West Side Story ("I like to be in America ... OK by me in America ...") but the phrases all begin on the first beat of the measure. Anybody know of a successful use of real bulerias or seguiryias compas written by a classical western musician that actually got traction among musicians? Tony A.
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