RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Full Version)

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Hugh -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 13:54:05)

Musicmaker
the nut is 2" wide

Thats the same as my Yamaha. Is this the normal width for a flamenco guitar at the nut?
Its quite a bit wider than my Yamaha classical.




musicmaker -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 15:10:52)

Hugh...well, all I can add is my old classicals e.g. Tatay and Takamine 323 both also had nut widths approx 2" as does my Gypsy King guitar. As I recall the Marin was slightly more narrow but not as narrow as the one Ricardo had described. You know, part of the reason we seem, as we get older to explore different ways to do the kinds of things we did earlier in our musical excursions has to do with the abandon and freedom of expression that a flamenco technique seems to elicit. It emboldens us more and perhaps brings out something we had put aside during our youth...oh oh the teacher in me is coming out again...better stop right here and ask a question.
The only awkwardness I seem to be experiencing at the moment is making sure I adhere to the compas correctly. Sometimes I find myself not quite getting the variations of the rhythmns I hear from accomplished flamenco guitarists...could it be my head is so filled with the thousands of tunes I've played throughout the years from early 'make believe ballroom' days to rock etc...? I don't know. What have others experienced who have come to flamenco with backgrounds in other genres?



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JasonM -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 19:56:12)

I believe 52mm is pretty standard for classical guitars. The cg171sf is 52mm. many flamencos are 53mm. As I have recently discovered, you get used to anything.

Music Maker, It has taken me YEARS to feel the compas internally. And I still have trouble feeling the compas sometimes, like in a falseta that stretches for numerous cycles and doesn't mark the accents, but usually it is more about feeling the rhythm that I have trouble with. After 50 years and many styles, I imagine you can pick up a rhythm pretty good, no?




musicmaker -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 20:28:11)

Oh yes I pick up many rhythms and variations, however flamenco seems to have many more variations...I guess I'll just plod along with one type at a time and see which ones appeal to me. Speaking of rythms, I learned much about them listening to African drums, Los Indios Tabajaras, and the various styles from Mexico e.g. the huapango and veracruz style.
I'm using the graf-martinez book 1 with cd and find it helps a lot.




JasonM -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 21:07:03)

ya can't beat the african drums in rhythm[:D] I hear the Graf M books are good.




Ricardo -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 29 2007 9:05:53)

quote:

Sometimes I find myself not quite getting the variations of the rhythmns I hear from accomplished flamenco guitarists...could it be my head is so filled with the thousands of tunes I've played throughout the years from early 'make believe ballroom' days to rock etc...? I don't know. What have others experienced who have come to flamenco with backgrounds in other genres?


I have noticed this and thought a lot about it. We hear a couple of notes of a melody, and it might sound vaguely familiar, so our musical brain fits those notes into the timing place it thinks they belong. My idea about it is about how the ear, your personal perception, of a melody or rhythm sits against your internal clock. What I mean is some folks can "sense" the rhythm is off, but they don't know exactly what is "on" or "off" about it.

As an experiment, if I have a student making a typical timing mistake, I will play the melody the way I think they are perceiving it against my foot, or compas track, or metronome. If they think that is it, I say "good", because that is "wrong". Then I play it the right way to see if they pick up on the difference.

In most cases a light bulb goes off and they "hear" the melody the way it should go, and it suddenly sounds "weird". So they have to relearn the melody correctly. It can happen with just 2 or 3 notes. In fact, that is the number of notes that can mess it up for an entire phrase. Focus on accenting a specific note that falls on a beat or something, usually fixes the problem. But some students practice the wrong thing so many times, and drive it in so hard that to "fix" it means, learning it all over like it is a completely different falseta.

There are of course more rare cases where the student simply can't hear a difference, both ways sound exactly the same, because they don't really have the internal clock developed at all. Still others simply don't care so much about timing, and think it is "ok" to do things their "own way". Everyone's "ear" for rhythm develops differently. But I am convinced that learning how to place a melody deliberately in to the rhythm various ways, is the best way to develop control over rhythm, and also figuring out stuff by ear more correctly, more quickly too. But I admit it is challenging.

Ricardo




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