does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Full Version)

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Guest -> does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 0:13:31)

does age reflects on studying flamenco? i am 28 y but actually sometimes i feel that i cant practice then i was thinking serious its over and its too late to make a good level in my hobby ....is it too late really or what i would love really to hear your openion s . [&:][8|]



JasonM -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 2:04:59)

I'm sorry. You should just sell your guitar and give up now.[;)]

Don't be ridiculous! If you work hard, you can get far.

According to an article in Scientific American, you could be a Flamenco guitar master in 10 years with hard dedicated practice. I think the point is that having 30 years of playing behind your belt doesn't mean that its going to show. Its not about starting at 5 years old. Its about hard work. Think about those people that study music in school. They come out of school being a much better musician then when they came in (hopefully), and they worked hard to do it.

My opinion, is to have a balance of practice and enjoyment. I don't know what your goals are, but I say try to enjoy the journey.



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 3:12:14)

quote:

does age reflects on studying flamenco? i am 28 y


Man I have aches and pains that are older than you. [:)] Try playing this stuff at 56! [:@]



steve -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 3:18:49)

Dido for me Pat............ooh, ouch, don't do that......Doc it hurts when I do that.......Oh the trials..........LOL



Guest -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 3:33:29)

ACTUALLY GOT NOTHING TO SAY MORE THAN I LOVE YA GUYS .... I THOUGHT IT WAS TOO LATE AND I VE BEEN CHEATING MY SELF BY PRACTICING AND PLAYIN FLAMENCO IN THIS AGE ,BUT I STILL HAVE A PROBLEM THE THEOREY I AM NOT GOOD IN IT I KNOW SOME SCALES AND CHORDS AND STUFF LIKE THIS BUT STILL ALOT I VE TO KNOW , BY THE WAY THE COUNTRY I LIVE IN ,THERE IS NO FLAMENCO TEACHERS OR EVEN A GOOD GUITAR TEACHER. I AM TEACHING MY SELF THROUGHT DVDS AND TABS ....BUT LATELY I BEGIN TO FEEL FRAUSTRATED AND DEPRESSED AND AS JASON M SAID I WAS GONA SELL MY GUITAR AND FORGOT ABOUT IT ALL .[:(][>:]



duende -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 5:24:11)

i started flamenco at 24 now im 31. No classical background so i started finger style from scratch, However i´ve been playing Metal/rock/punk and Jazz for years before that so my left hand surely has a BIG advantage.

Its never to late. its only a matter how much time you put into it.
Some people think it´s to late to study when they´re 30.
But if they did study they would have a degree and be done at 34 at the most.
witch is still young.



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 6:05:36)

quote:

Doc it hurts when I do that


Well ya durn fool...don't do that! [:D]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 7:30:14)

I started playing flamenco at 39. Thats 5 years ago. I didn´t play anything some 7 years before, so my fingers were weak and it was a bit tough in the start. On the other hand, I played and syudied a lot of music when I was younger and knew a lot about practizing and mental work.

Take it easy and first of all enjoy. Its fun. All what you write is because you dont accept where you are, meaning you cannot progress. Your mind is blocking you. Take that guitar, make it sound, enjoy what its telling you and play. Then you´ll find out that you play a lot better than you think. [;)]



Ron.M -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 9:18:20)

quote:

Try playing this stuff at 56!


Pat,
You're so right!
Here's the problem I think about a lot...
By practising, am I really building up muscle strength, speed and stamina...or simply wearing out more quickly, what's left of the useful life of my joints? [:D]

Perhaps one of the medics on the Forum could answer this?

cheers

Ron



Arash -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 9:42:23)

Ok, lets be honest! as a child you learn much more faster than when you are 30 years old or older. This is a biological fact.
BUT IMO, this only applies to the technique skill, theory,etc.

Specially in Flamenco, which is such an emotional music style, IMO you can not play with heart and soul when you started with 5 years and are 18 years old now! Even when you have practiced 13 years, 8 hours a days and even if you can play all Paco and Tomatito falsetas as fast as they can.
SOMETHING will be missing which you can't learn in that age period.

And this something is ......all the experiences (bad and good) which you gain during your life and which makes you ready to express them in Flamenco music. So when you start to play flamenco guitar at the age of 28 , 30 , or higher.....maybe you will need some more time to learn and practice the technique, etc. but on the other hand BECAUSE of your age and your emotional maturity, you can exploit the full potential out of what you learned in this age when playing the guitar!

This is my opinion.


Arash



n85ae -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 15:23:40)

I'm 47 and just had my first kid three years ago, and started playing Flamenco shortly after he was born. Even at this crusty old age I was able to learn pretty much all the stuff on the Aaron Gilmartin DVD, and pretty much the Montoya Buleria's DVD as well. Albeit not all at full speed. I did already play Jazz
guitar, so it was mostly a matter of learning the left hand stuff, and forcing
the right hand to do wierd stuff it didn't want to do ... :)

For me though, I don't really try to learn how to play other people's stuff, I learn Falseta's, Compas, etc. as a mechanism for adding to my musical toolbox. All the music I sit around playing are my own creations based on the foundation of stuff I absorbed from that.

The great thing is, I play to make myself happy and don't care if I gain any recognition from it. When I was 27 I might have felt differently. The weird thing is that because I don't care about it now, I've actually improved a huge amount.
To the point where my wife doesn't ask me to quit playing when she's watching tv any more ... :) Which believe me is saying a lot.

So I guess the point could be made that aging can actually be beneficial to playing.



Guest -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 17:48:39)

its okay guys i just wanted to know how is old is every body here ....lol [:)][:D][:D] thankx all for the good feelings and sapport.



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 18:22:03)

quote:

By practising, am I really building up muscle strength, speed and stamina...or simply wearing out more quickly, what's left of the useful life of my joints?


Ron,

I've thought about the very same issue and don't have an answer.

One thing I do know is just in the last couple of months my arpeggios have gone all to pieces and this was the thing that came so easy for me. I never had to think about them, they just came naturally. Now I constantly miss notes and have to slow way down. It’s extremely frustrating. Yet my other stuff seems to be getting better…. go figure.

The worse part is, it takes about two hours of playing in the evening to get my hands limbered up, and by that time it’s past my bedtime. [:)]



frhout -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 19:10:40)

I'm 45. I started folk guitar at 14, classical and flamenco at 16. Never given up. I'm re-starting now to re-train my fingers. There has never been so much material for flamenco, too much, probably. But it helps to amend past errors.



mrMagenta -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 20:19:08)

knowing what you want to do in life when you're 7 years old and keeping to it was one thing in the old feudal days, when there weren't a billion appealing options luring you wherever you turn.

i'm soon 26. I have tried many different things always thinking: 'this might be it!' (graphics for videogames, literature science, learning computer game programming.. painting, politics, cosmology, playing go (the japanese boardgame), photography, manual labour and beer combo). I've only just recently found something i know i'll stick to.. that is, playing the guitar.

I sometimes get frustrated over it too, thinking i could have gotten to it earlier.. what's provoking me is the general attitude; 'you can't hope to go beyond hobby-level if you haven't been at it from the cradle'.. but i use that to fuel my stubborness.



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 23:00:33)

quote:

The worse part is, it takes about two hours of playing in the evening to get my hands limbered up, and by that time it’s past my bedtime.


Pat;

You should practice indoors. Those cold nights in Portland can really put the freeze on your hands! [:D]



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 25 2007 23:05:27)

quote:

does age reflects on studying flamenco?


You have to be born in Spain and begin when you are 5 years old! [:)]

You can learn at any age as long as you can use your hands, etc.

What is important and yet so difficult is to practice everyday. As you get older that can be hard. Your job and family will dictate how much time you will have to practice.

Take on something simple that you enjoy and learn to play it well. Do not worry about how long it takes - you are in this for the enjoyment.



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 26 2007 1:01:18)

quote:

You should practice indoors. Those cold nights in Portland can really put the freeze on your hands!


Tom,

It's colder than a well drillers butt all right! The problem is I have poor circulation in my hands and they are always cold and stiff even in the summer.



musicmaker -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 26 2007 16:23:02)

All this talk about age amuses me since this March I will turn 70. I have been playing guitar for over 50 years. I have played Pops,rock,jazz,blues,all forms of Latin especially Mexican styles,Puerto Rican, Cuban and Altiplano (South American Indian), classical, country and now...as I approach 70 my fingers itch to play Flamenco style and you know what? They can! Of course not with the speed and depth of a Paco De Lucia or Carlos Montoya, for that matter, but I am in heaven with my Gypsy King Cordoba thinline Falamenco guitar...I practice approx 2 hours a day and have found new ways to play old familiar tunes e.g. Malaguena, Carnaval etc... with more intensity and emotion, so...Its never too late!



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Ron.M -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 26 2007 20:47:43)

quote:

All this talk about age amuses me since this March I will turn 70. I have been playing guitar for over 50 years. I have played Pops,rock,jazz,blues,all forms of Latin especially Mexican styles,Puerto Rican, Cuban and Altiplano (South American Indian), classical, country and now...as I approach 70 my fingers itch to play Flamenco style and you know what? They can! Of course not with the speed and depth of a Paco De Lucia or Carlos Montoya, for that matter, but I am in heaven with my Gypsy King Cordoba thinline Falamenco guitar...I practice approx 2 hours a day and have found new ways to play old familiar tunes e.g. Malaguena, Carnaval etc... with more intensity and emotion, so...Its never too late!


Absolutely!!

This is what it's all about IMO.
Once you start setting what standards you expect yourself to achieve in what time frame...then you've destroyed the whole thing that made you get involved in the guitar in the first place,...made it into yet another chore you've got to deal with after coming home from work!

cheers

Ron



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 26 2007 22:18:57)

Pat;

My first teacher pounded into me to do warm up execises before begining to play to be sure that your hands are warm and to help prevent injury.

I can remember being on tour in Oregon during 1964 and 65, when it was 15 below zero in the north central area. I got out of the car and had one heck of a time warming up my hands!

You know what they say about cold hands and a warm heart! [:)]



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 27 2007 3:30:44)

quote:

You know what they say about cold hands and a warm heart!


I think they also say something about "big feet" as well, but it never worked out for me! [:D][:D]



Ricardo -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 27 2007 4:45:32)

musicmaker,
Does your gypsy kings guitar have maple on the back/sides??? It looks like that in the picture. I have one with what they call "yellow Cedar". Good guitar, although the neck is a bit "skinny" for my taste. Live with the loud stuff going on, it really delivers.

Ricardo



steve -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 27 2007 21:35:34)

[:D]I think we ought to start an exclusive club for the Geriatrics out there. Anybody 50 years old is welcome.[;)] Pat, Musicmaker, and myself at 62[:)], we would be known as "O.F.F." for - Old Flamenco Farts. or OLD FARTS for FLAMENCO, or OLD FARTS and FLAMENCO, or maybe "OFW" for OLD FLAMENCOS with WALKERS[:D] [:D] Or...........you fill in the blank.....


Anybody body got an off road walker for sale???.............LOL



musicmaker -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 27 2007 22:50:45)

Hi Ricardo...Yes it has flame maple back and sides...no dot markers at all...the nut is 2" wide and the neck , ebony on cedar, is a wonderful 'u' shape much like the Tatay (last one made by the old man befor his son took over and let the business go downhill) I used to own when I played classical. Actually the neck also feels like the Marin student model flamenco guitar I had 20 years ago and gave to one of my sons.
The cedar back and side guitar was purposely made with a more narrow neck because they wanted to sell it as a crossover for guitarists more comfortable with electric solid bodies.



nhills -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 27 2007 23:08:39)

At 66, I'll join!

Norman



Patrick -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 2:16:24)

quote:

At 66, I'll join!


I'm starting to feel like a kid again. [:)]



Hugh -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 7:41:25)

Hey I'll join, if you'll let me as a mere 58 year old whippersnapper.
Age dont mean a thing, unless you like posing of course.

Musicmaker, I'm much the same as you, I've had interests in rock, blues, jazz, classical, pop throughout my guitar playing life, and I also find that since I started this flamenco style, its changed my way of playing all the other stuff. Far more expression than I used before.
I only wish I'd found it years ago [:(]



Hugh -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 7:59:06)

Ron, as to the "building up muscle or wearing out joints". Segovia played well into his nineties, and his hands did'nt disintegrate or pack up in any way.
Its probably much better for your hands to be exercised daily in this fashion, and keeping them in good working order.
My hands are fine, its just the rest of me that needs a re-build [&:]



Guest -> RE: does age reflects on studying flamenco? (Jan. 28 2007 11:05:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hugh

Ron, as to the "building up muscle or wearing out joints". Segovia played well into his nineties, and his hands did'nt disintegrate or pack up in any way.
Its probably much better for your hands to be exercised daily in this fashion, and keeping them in good working order.
My hands are fine, its just the rest of me that needs a re-build [&:]

hey i think i dont have to begin now after 20 years may be ....lol [:D][:D]



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